The Morality of Full Time Van Dwelling and RVing


To become full time nomads we vandwellers and RVers must break some of the laws of the land. But how can we justify that? I believe we are morally obligated to do so because those laws are unjust and very harmful.


You may hate this post, and also hate me for writing it. If you don’t want to risk that…


Normally I try to never use guilt and fear to motivate my readers or to make my points, but to make this point I must use them to explain why I would be guilty if I obey the laws of this land. I’m not saying you are guilty–I’m only saying I would feel guilty!! I’m in no position to pass any judgement on you. Each of us must follow our conscience. I also don’t believe it is why you should become a nomad; you should become a nomad because you will be happier, healthier and your life will be drastically better. That’s all the reason you should need!

I know this seems like a very strange topic for me to address, but over the years many people have challenged me about the ethics of the things I do and teach.  And rightfully so! In this series on choosing states and getting an address I am going to out-and-out encourage you to lie to and deceive the institutions that control and run this country. You won’t have any choice. While living in a van is not illegal, the system is set up in such a way that you MUST break some laws in order to do it. You have a simple choice:

Strictly Obey the laws  OR  Be a Full-time Nomad–You can’t do both.

Here are some examples of things that I suggest you consider doing that are either outright illegal or many people would consider to be possibly unethical and immoral:

  • We have no choice but to Lie about our physical address. In this country you MUST have a physical address you live at or it’s nearly impossible to function under the rules and regulations of this society. But, a full-time nomad doesn’t have one because we don’t live anywhere. So we lie about our residence in order to maintain the lives we love.
  • Break vagrancy laws to live in cities. In many cities, it’s literally illegal to live in your vehicle and yet many people still do it illegally. The very fact I have posts here about “Stealth Parking” tells you that what I’m telling you to do is debatable legally or morally. We are forced to scurry around like rats and hide in order to live the way we choose to live–a way of life that does no harm, but much good.
  • Live full-time on Public Lands. I never suggest you build any kind of permanent structure on Public Lands, NEVER! Just the opposite, you must always treat Public Lands with love and respect, and leave them better than you found them. I also highly recommend that you live year-around on Public Lands by regularly moving from camp to camp. Some of the National Forests are interpreting that as being illegal because if you don’t have a physical home with a residence address, you must be a resident of the National Forest, so you are breaking the law against residency.
  • Drop out of society (the younger the better) and take advantage of the system to get all you can out of it. Every time I write something about Obamacare, unemployment or any other part of the Government Safety Net, I get outraged letters about how we are just a bunch of immoral dead-beat bums who are leaching off society.
  • I’m a hypocrite. I encourage people to drop-out of society, but I still depend on that society for most things, like food, gas, computers, cell data and so on–I should be one or the other, in-or-out.

How do I Justify the Things I Teach

To me this is a very simple issue, those laws are immoral, unjust and terribly harmful. It’s not only acceptable for us to break laws that are immoral, we are morally required to do so. That is not an idea that is unique to me, some of the greatest men of history have been saying that for a very long time, as seen in these quotes:

“When a man is denied the right to live the life he believes in, he has no choice but to become an outlaw.” ~Nelson Madela

“Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it.”  ~Albert Einstein

“It is not always the same thing to be a good man and a good citizen.” ~ Aristotle

“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws.” ~ Ayn Rande

Even the most patriotic, Pro-American of us must admit that there can come a time when you must break laws in order to live by our our own conscious.

“We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was illegal.” ~Martin Luther King Jr.

But, do these laws rise to that level that we are justified in breaking them? Or, are we doing more harm than good and should we just give up this idea of becoming a nomad and conform, living the normal, average American life? Henry David Thoreau said it better than anybody when he said:

 “If the injustice … of the machine of government …

is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.

Let your life be a counter friction to stop the machine.”

~Henry David Thoreau

But do the laws that require you and I to continue to live the traditional American life of rent or home ownership require us to be “the agents of injustice to others”? At first glance it seems easy to say, “No, they just affect me and everyone else who wants to live like a nomad.” But aren’t you and I of equal value as everyone else? Just because most people are happy living in homes, does that mean I am to be forced into a life of unhappiness living in one? Am I forbidden to find my own happiness, living in the way I like, even though it does no harm to anyone else?

I find that argument to be compelling, but it is NOT the reason I believe we must disobey the laws. Those laws exist for no other reason to force me back into the mainstream of American life and with every fiber of my being I believe that everything about the “American Dream” and the “American Way of Life” is HORRIBLY and irreversibly damaging to:

  1. All the citizens of this planet wherever they may live.
  2. To the Ecosystem of the planet itself and every organic and inorganic thing on it.
  3. For all future generations who will live on Earth in the next 1000 year..

That may sound like a terrible exaggeration, but there is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of Climate and Social Scientists in the world today would basically agree with it. See these posts for more about Global Warming and proof that being a nomad is better than living in a house:

Why our Carbon Footprint is Critically Important

Proof from the EPA that Vandwelling is Greener than House Dwelling

The “American Dream” and the “American Way of Life” fundamentally teaches that your worth and value as a human are judged by;

  1. Your hard work and productivity.
  2. Your home (and car) ownership.
  3. Your level of consumption.

Americans treasure those three things above all else. The more you have and do them, they more you are esteemed and valued. Many of the laws, regulations, traditions and activities of this country are designed around promoting them and encouraging us to do them–and prevent us from failing to do them!

People who do them very well are very valued–the rich and the famous. Those who do it only okay but they are faithful and reliable to do it are seen as the backbone of our country–the middle class. On the other hand, those who do them poorly are despised, we literally kick them to the curb and pretend they don’t exist–the poor and the homeless. (Our problem is that being a nomad is nearly universally lumped in with the homeless and so we constantly run into legal and moral problems because we are part of a despised class in this country.)

Your first thought probably is, “So what, those are good things, we should be doing them.” No they aren’t! For a very long time they seemed like great things, but we’ve carried a good thing too far and now it’s becoming obvious that they are all terrible things with two extremely negative  unintended  consequences: 1) physical and psychological consequences to people and 2) extraordinarily damaging to our environment by pollution and Global Warming.

Hyper-Consumerism is a severe mental illness that is killing us and killing the planet.

Here are four ways the American Dream and Way of Life  is so unjust I believe I (not you) am morally obligated to disobey any laws that force me to follow it and I (not you)  am morally obligated to be friction against it:

  1. It dehumanizes us. Being turned into a “Unit of Production” completely dehumanizes those who are part of it. Humans were born to live in packs, like wolves, living free and wild. But instead we’ve organised ourselves like ants in a hill or bees in a hive. We’re drones busily doing our jobs without a single thought to our own happiness. We’ve become machines that are the servants of the machines; slaves that serve our government and corporate masters and make them rich while we grow old and poor. The secret question most Americans ask themselves in the quiet of their heart is, “Is this all their is to life, shouldn’t I be happier?”
  2. Capitalism depends on cheap, slave labor, sweat-shops, or child labor.  During most of its history, we simply went to an “undeveloped” country and grabbed up it’s citizens, put them in chains, and called them our property–to do anything with as we saw fit. Beatings, rape, murder, they were all fine because they were property, not people. You might say , “But we stopped doing that, we don’t do it anymore.” But you’d be wrong. Even now in the industrial age of machines, we needs slaves nearly as much as ever. We didn’t want to have to see the slavery in action so we’ve shipped our mining and manufacturing oversees to China, Asia or Africa where hundreds of millions of people are routinely made literal slaves or wage-slaves in sweat-shops and child-labor . For two tiny examples of that, see the footnote at the end of the blog.
  3. It rapes and destroys the earth. Home ownership and hyper-consumerism are so damaging to our ecosystem, that we stand on the precipice of an ecological disaster that we can’t even begin to comprehend. In fact, it’s so apocalyptic we refuse to even contemplate it. Instead, many of us simply deny the huge amount of evidence and say all the scientists are liars and fools and not as smart as the people I follow–so I’ll just ignore them. Even those of us who open our eyes to the catastrophe that is coming are so overwhelmed by it, we do almost nothing about it.
  4. It cares nothing for the future welfare of the citizens of Earth. In 100 years, life on this planet is going to be drastically different than it is now. We’re looking at plant and animal mass extinctions on a global scale. Billions of people will be forced to flee their homes and everything they own because they are either 1) under water, 2) burning or 3) too hot to endure. Every one of those things are happening right now as you read this, but on a very small scale so we can still pretend they aren’t there. Without question, the scale will increase and become massive and global–there will no longer be any pretending it isn’t happening.  On top of all that, there will be global and regional wars over water and food because both will be scarce in the world we are creating.

I will Be Friction Against The Machine!

I am morally bound to break any laws that try to force me back into that system. I’m equally morally bound to contribute as little as possible to to a system that dehumanizes humans, horribly pollutes the planet, and cares nothing for future generations. Instead, I’ll work against it by calling as many others as I possibly can out from that system and in any way reasonably possible being a friction against the machine. I’ll do that with honey and not vinegar! I want you to chose this life because of how much better it can be right now! I”ll do that by living a great life myself and introducing you to other people who are also living a great life.

I’m making Videos on my good friends James and Kyndal’s YouTube Channel. See them here:

Thanks for supporting this site by using these links to Amazon. I’ll make a small percentage on your purchase and it won’t cost you anything, even if you buy something different.


 Here are two tiny examples of the horrible conditions the hidden people who are making our cheap stuff are forced to work and live under:

  1. See this article on how your iPhone 6 was made this year: bbc-exposes-inhumane-working-conditions-in-apple-factories.html. There’s no question that Apple doesn’t want this publicity and is doing everything it can to treat it’s workers well–but, they are still being abused. If a company like Apple can’t keep it from happening, what are conditions like in the millions of other factory’s that make no effort to treat their employees well?
  2. In many foreign countries, producing the raw material for our cheap products is often done by child or slave labor. For example, some of the exotic metals used in our smartphones are mined by children as young as seven years old in heinous conditions:

That’s too tiny examples, multiply it by millions or billions.


I've been a full-time VanDweller for 12 years and I love it. I hope to never live in a house again!

147 comments on “The Morality of Full Time Van Dwelling and RVing
  1. g. buyea says:

    Actually loved your post. However I have had, still have, and will probably always have issues with your constant reference to Walmart. Your position of cheap/slave labor is spot on, so I don’t really get the constant Walmart plugs. I personally would rather spend more money elsewhere than spend a dime at Walmart. Just a thought.

    • Bob Bob says:

      g. buyea, this would make a good blog post I guess. I’m only going to deal with the issue of Walmart and slave labor since that’s what you brought up. You can make other arguments against Walmart, but they aren’t relevant here and are a different discussion..

      Where will you go instead of Walmart and do you really believe that the products you buy there weren’t made in China, in exactly the same way? Of course you will pay more for it, but how does that help the person in China? What did they gain if I paid more for it? For example, an iPhone, the people who are killing themselves in the factories are no better off if I buy an iPhone at Target, or the Verizon store instead of Walmart, are they?

      The issue of slave labor has nothing to do with the retailer, it’s where was the product made? Most products we want are not made in America and you simply can’t buy American made anywhere. Spending more at a different store won’t change that or help the people in China in any way.

      I firmly believe that Walmart wants to buy American, but they simply can’t because 1) it doesn’t exist and 2) if they paid more for it and sold it for more money, they won’t be able to sell it so it set in their warehouse. Even if they put up signs that said “American Made”, people won’t pay more for it. Whose fault is that? If Walmart goes broke trying to sell products made in America to people who refuse to buy it, will that help the people in China?

      I’m writing to many people making very low incomes, $500-$700 a month is common. It would be very noble of me to tell them all to buy American made even if they have to pay more, but condemning them to a life of deep poverty just doesn’t make sense to me either.

      There are no answers!!!!!!! I truly and deeply believe that. Thus my choice to not support the system and do everything I can to bring it down even as I’m offering the most people I can their best possible lives. I have nothing to offer the slave-labor in china, but I do have something to offer the poor in this country. So I offer it. If it’s not enough, it’s the best I can do.

      • Walt says:


        I agree with most of what you say here in this reply and with just about all of what you wrote in your post. However, at least for me, the argument against shopping at WalMart has nothing to do with any of the points you make but rather with the fact that WalMart workers still tend to be underpaid. Many of them are also hired part-time and shown how to apply for government benefits and then encouraged to do so. This also allows WalMart to avoid having to provide any benefits themselves. This is why WalMart is currently a store of last resort for me, a place I’ll go only if I can’t find it elsewhere and need it fairly quickly. Will that change if and when I am able to get on the road? Perhaps.
        Walt recently posted…#208 – Trump, No TrumpMy Profile

        • Bob Bob says:

          Walt, ye, that is another very valid argument against Walmart, but one I’m not addressing right now. Let me say it again, if you are living on $500-$700 a month on SS, my advice is you shop at Walmart rather than go hungry. You can’t eat ideals!

      • g. buyea says:

        No blame. Your point well taken. What you have offered has been a blessing for me and many others. I have been a faithful visitor to your site for years and will certainly continue. My issue with Walmart is not so much made in china as opposed to made in America but rather what I perceive as a willful undoing of community because of their business model. It saddens me.

      • Michael J. Canoy says:

        Sure. I agree with yo and the only answer I have is “Minimalize”. If there is no GOOD way out – at least do the LEAST harm you can. I;m sorry, but if a person makes barely a living somewhere – what’s the moral sense of me denying them even the living?

  2. BobM says:

    I think this sums up what you have said in your article. This is the product of the laws and great American culture and hints at the next generations commitment to the vast beauty surrounding us.
    One van dweller does more good in one day that 1000 college students could hope to achieve.

    • Bob Bob says:

      Very well said Bob!

      • Michael J. Canoy says:

        OK- but 3 of my kids have been saved and gotten ahead by those despised Walmart jobs. One has now made a career of it.
        I knew Sam Walton when he only had 2 stores and the corporation has made tremendous additions to NW Arkansas. Of course, I mostly now buy from Amazon. Sigh!

  3. JD says:

    What a strange mix of rationalizations and it seems solely designed to justify one’s agenda. You derive income from websites and blogs that have ads, and promote links to web stores selling goods, 99% of which is probably made by those slave driving sources you feign to detest so much. If one seeks to tread such high moral ground it might be a curious transparency to see just how dependent on that income one actually is.

    Still, no mention of shopping locally, supporting small business, instead you promote big box retailers, either the cyber type or brick n mortar: malwart, amazoo, et al.

    For me your arguments are specious and rife with logical fallacies. You frame the argument comparing someone living in a 2500 + sq ft mcmansion with someone living in a van. Perhaps a credible comparison would be the 2500 sft house with a 35 ft Provost class A motorhome. You seem not cognizant of the fact or unwilling to recognize that it’s possible to live a great life on a small plot homestead, off the grid or little dependent on it, grow some of your own food and take a deep responsibility for one’s own life.

    • Vanholio says:

      Vanholio loves logic but isn’t sure which logical fallacies you’re referring to specifically. Could you enlighten us? Here’s a list:
      Vanholio recently posted…Shit in Woods Goes Gross to NightmareMy Profile

    • Bob Bob says:

      JD, I’m pretty sure we had this discussion before, you think it’s either go 100% or do nothing at all. I cut my carbon footprint by a two-thirds and so you condemn for the remaining third. You actually believe the earth would be better if I continued in my old consuming life in a house because I still buy at Walmart and Amazon? I can’t even comprehend that thinking.

      A very few of my readers are in 40 foot motorhomes–but very, very few. Many more of my readers can’t afford to buy a $2000 van. So I give them advice on starting with their car or SUV

      But you condemn for that because my advice should be that they buy land and homestead. That is so ridiculous it’s not worth considering!! They can’t buy a van, how are they going to buy and a set up a homestead!!! Most of them have never grown anything, but they should spend all their money on land. Land that has any value for homesteading is far and away out of the reach of most of my audience. If they could afford, they couldn’t afford the taxes.

      I’m offering people, real viable options no matter how much cash they have or how much comes in per month, you’re offering them pie in the sky that can’t happen. I’ve seen my way work incredibly well over and over again for hundreds of people. And each of those people are tremendously happier than they would have been in the only real option they had: sit in low cost housing and watch TV the rest of their live. Even as they are happier, they also are less doing tremendously less harm to the earth.

      You sit on the sidelines complaining and criticizing while I’m in the trenches busting my butt every day and I’m changing many peoples lives.

      People can’t eat and live on your theories. They can, and do, live and eat by following my suggestions.

      Come to the next RTR and I’ll give you as much seminar time as you want to tell people how evil and wrong I am. I’m sure you can persuade them all to follow your great way of life.

    • terre says:

      you might find this article interesting.

  4. Linda Sand says:

    I consider myself an ethical person. Yet, if I was able to go fulltime again I would break laws to do so. The only place I feel somewhat comfortable domiciling is at the Escapee’s headquarters in Livingston, Texas, because they won a court case that said their mailing addresses are legal for voting purposes. We tend to extrapolate from that they are legal addresses for everything even while we suspect that not to be true. Plus, you are supposed to insure your vehicles where they are garaged, When I was domiciled in South Dakota, my RVs were never “garaged” there–we spent most of our time in Arizona. But the RVs were registered and insured in South Dakota. I agree with Bob, you cannot live on the road while not breaking laws. That doesn’t mean I don’t understand the reason for some laws; I just can’t live by them as hard as I try to do so.

  5. Wayne says:

    Kudos Bob, Very informative.

  6. Vanholio says:

    Vanholio agrees with Bob completely. Walking more softly upon the earth is the moral thing to do, even if a few laws must be broken.

    What’s more, the relevant laws of residency are about efficiently handling its benefits and responsibilities, not moral imperatives. We just happen to fall a bit outside of their considerations. Did the lawmakers intend to deny nomads voting rights? Health and social insurance? The ability to own and insure personal property, including vehicles? I doubt it! The laws solved some problems and created others. The kinds of laws we’re talking about are makeshift, imperfect compromises.

    And if vandwellers and other nomads had the money, time, motivation, and pull to lobby and have court cases, I’m sure it could all be worked out. In the meantime, I’m not going to worry a few technical violations.
    Vanholio recently posted…Shit in Woods Goes Gross to NightmareMy Profile

  7. Tom says:

    Bob some of your best work with real spoken truths.

  8. Carl says:

    Just sitting here in my off-grid cabin I’m breaking at least a half dozen laws.

    I’m content only because of the incompetence of lawmakers and the limited resources of law enforcement.

    If rigorous enforcement were pursued this lifestyle would be abolished relatively quickly.

    Frankly I rely on our law enforcement being too ineffective to enforce statue, not to mention the laws they are forced to ignore and those they are rewarded to pursue in conflict with the Constitution.

  9. willy1593 says:

    Well said Bob. Opinions are like A** ***** everyone has one. Sometimes in life we have to do what is best for us. Many of the laws that must be “broken” are not being broken if you look at them as written in the “spirit of the law” not the letter of the law. Since Van Dwelling does not fit the conventional way most laws are written then i choose to look at the “spirit of the law” I feel no guilt for not conforming, or breaking laws that are not for the greater good. I have read your post twice and I am angry at the people who have questioned your ethics or the ethics of those who choose to live a Nomadic life.

  10. Karen says:

    I live for the day that my family responsibilities will be completed and I can return to full time life on the road. In the mean time I am living for the moments 100 days per year and making the most of them far from the intrusive arm of enforcement. I follow with horrified interest the arrest, forfeiture of property through impound with exorbitant fines, especially detrimental to the financially vulnerable of our nomads. Maybe we need to develop a fund to assist our most vulnerable in the face of fanatical interpretation and enforcement of “legal” attempts to limit the life we choose. Thanks again Bob…..You are providing much food for thought and discussion. PS Medicare has a whole new set of regs that make our way of life nearly impossible to carry on.

  11. Omar Storm says:


    Interesting post. Thanks for the write up.


  12. Jackie says:

    Gosh! I really appreciate your viewpoint! You always give me something to think about. Thank you!

  13. Great post Bob! I’ve been thinking a lot about most of the same things you post for years. You are spot on about the slave labor and it has been really bad even in this country for years. There’s been news of chicken processing plants here in America where the employees don’t even get a change to go to the bathroom and wear diapers!!! What a shame. Here’s the article from the Washington Post (hope it’s ok to post links)

  14. Omar says:


    I’m sorry, but I can’t see any comments unless I make a comment from each electronic device. Computer & iPad. I’ve logged onto to the forum but to read blog comments it requires an additional log on authentication but all my authentication attempts have failed. Sorry off topic.


  15. whitey says:

    Hi Bob, I’ve been lurking for a couple of months but this post and another similar one have drawn me out. Incendiary stuff you’ve written and it definitely doesn’t go over well with mainstream folk.

    There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws.” ~ Ayn Rande

    This quote describes my workplace and our society to a “T”. A mind boggling number of new rules and regulations comes out every year. Subsequently thousands of new criminals are created out of thin air, ready to be fleeced (aka fined) to keep the machine rolling.

    What brought me here? That little voice that so many of us have in the back of our minds has turned from a whisper to a scream. Thanks for providing a place for like minds to meet.

    • Bob Bob says:

      Whitey, that little voice is getting louder and louder for many of us. Hopefully we’ll finally give in to it and make some changes in our lives.

      I don’t believe I can change the world, but I can change my life, and show other people how to do it as well.

    • JLynne says:

      It’s becoming a scream for me also. Many thanks to Bob for helping me clarify my what my emotional compass has been trying to get across. Purchased an almost ready to go van this year. I’m scared. I don’t need to rush into full time. Have a condo to share as I travel.
      But there’s an urgency that’s almost painful and I’m attempting to keep a cool head and rational and logical mind.

      • Bob Bob says:

        JLynne, as with any big journey, one step at a time is the best and only practical way to do it. Deep breath … step…. Deep breath … step…. Deep breath … step…. Deep breath … step….

  16. Sandi Flesch says:

    Hi Bob
    The timing on Your post with this subject is impeccable. For the third time yesterday I was confronted with small minded people. My insurance company wants to argue about my converted RV. My school bus is REGISTERED with the BMV of Ohio as an RV! I signed an affidavit stating that I had met the four requirements for an RV.
    1. Bed
    2. Food prep station.
    3. Table & chair to eat at.
    4. Ice box
    5. Cookstove

    (Which seems silly to me, who’s to say I can’t eat in bed! lol)
    But I complied cause it’s the LAW.
    My insurance company says it must have a bathroom! It does have a camp toilet & I guess I’ll rig some sort of shower. It is RECREATION VEHICLE that I totally figure on using campsite facilities !!!
    TWO tow trucks refused to tow me, stating it didn’t have a built bed and still had a few bus seats in it! A mattress on the floor (which is all I had at the time) IS a bed… I clean expensive homes where the owners have their mattress on the floor! (One Indian Doctor the other works for Honda and lived in Japan for years) I insisted on talking to the manager at AAA. Abd after argument he told the guy to tow me. Bottom line if it’s registered as an RV their opinion doesn’t matter.
    I’m in my cooling down period to deal with my insurance company.
    Thanks for letting me vent.

    • Bob Bob says:

      Sandi, it is amazing that I’ve been writing all about the issues you are facing. I’m really sorry it’s such a struggle, but I’m afraid I don’t have any real help to offer. Keep banging away at it and hopefully you’ll get it squared away.

  17. OUTSTANDING Article Bob, Right On. I to feel the same way and have been watching this malevolent curse commonly referred to as our Government and Corporate spread their poison across our land. I have noticed a great up-tic in the downward spiral of our country in the last year. We are on the preverbal edge right now and the bottom will drop out soon. I think the trigger maybe having no viable option for a good president. (Unless I can convince you to throw your hat in the ring as an independent) You would probably win Bob!

    What we are seeing is Money and Power run rampid because the government systematically enacted laws to suppress fair minded citizens from voicing their disgust with the system over the last three decades. Aside from violence (which I don’t support) our collective hands have been tied from trying to stop the destruction of America. My only recommendation now is to get right with the great spirit, become fearless and know your exit strategy. My Best to Everyone.

    • Bob Bob says:

      Doug, I do NOT believe in conspiracy theories, but I just have to agree with all you said. Greed has become the Lord and Master of this country and that can not end well.

      The Robber Barons of the early 1900s devastated the people of this country, but we put laws in place to control them and had unions to check their power. Today it’s like they have found a way around every one of those road-blocks and are in full control of the country again. They are even trying to get one of them elected! I don’t see any hope.

  18. John Camara says:

    Excellent article Bob. I too want to live a nomad life. My only hindrance is coming up with enough money to buy a proper vehicle for my wife and I.

    • Bob Bob says:

      John, it’s not an easy thing to do. The system is rigged to keep us locked up and docile in our homes and breaking out of it is pretty tough. One possibility is to break out and start much smaller than you want, keep working and saving, then move up to what you really want. But sometimes even that is not possible. I wish you well as you try!

  19. Patrise says:

    My next post is about the tragedy of environmental degradation brought on by high consumption lifestyle. I regret I spent so much of my life chasing it.
    We humans have destroyed half of the wild creatures on the planet in the last 40 years. HALF OF ALL WILDLIFE. I don’t think people take that in.
    Nomadic culture is certainly a time honored way of living, but cruelly oppressed since the 20th C.
    The Romany (‘gypsies’), Bedoin and of course many American Indians and other indigenous folk live lightly on the land.
    Keep up the good work!!

    • Bob Bob says:

      Patrise, anyone who has opened their heart and minds to the devastation we are doing to this planet and its inhabitants must be outraged and motivated to action. We all do what we can where we can! Thank you for what you do.

    • Robert says:

      Yes Patrise There be Monsters here !

  20. Marshall says:

    Great post Bob. I agree 100%!

    I am all for taking advantage of EVERY government program. As an American it is my RIGHT to have access to these resources.

    If others want to sit home and needlessly suffer while these programs exist to help them well good luck to them.

    Just don’t tread on my or mine!

  21. Jora says:

    Lone Dog
    Irene Rutherford McLeod

    I’m a lean dog, a keen dog, a wild dog, and lone;
    I’m a rough dog, a tough dog, hunting on my own;
    I’m a bad dog, a mad dog, teasing silly sheep;
    I love to sit and bay the moon, to keep fat souls from sleep.

    I’ll never be a lap dog, licking dirty feet,
    A sleek dog, a meek dog, cringing for my meat,
    Not for me the fireside, the well-filled plate,
    But shut door, and sharp stone, and cuff and kick, and hate.

    Not for me the other dogs, running by my side,
    Some have run a short while, but none of them would bide.
    O mine is still the lone trail, the hard trail, the best,
    Wide wind, and wild stars, and hunger of the quest!

    This poem is in the public domain.

    • Bob Bob says:

      Jora, I love it! reminds so much of Call of the Wild and White Fang. I so deeply admire Jack London and I can’t help but think of him when I read that.

      I would rather be ashes than dust!
      I would rather that my spark should burn out
      in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot.
      I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom
      of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.
      The function of man is to live, not to exist.
      I shall not waste my days trying to prolong them.
      I shall use my time.

      ~~Jack London

  22. Coffee Tim says:

    Good post, Bob

  23. J says:

    Thank You Bob.

  24. Mark Wilson says:

    What I say to you Bob. Stand fast in your beliefs. I admire your spirit! And “Keep on Truck’in”!

  25. Larry Sugden says:

    Well said!

    “When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

    The Declaration of Independence

    • Bob Bob says:

      Larry, we are a nation of Rebels!! Is it any wonder that we rebel!! I think not!

    • foofoodog says:

      They realized that long established political systems end up becoming self serving and irrelevant.

      I wish someone would translate that part of the The Declaration of Independence into modern day USA English. For those of us who can’t really comprehend archaic flowery prose but do have a gut feel for what we all are supposed to be doing.

      It was written to justify casting off British rule, but it is generic enough to apply at any time.

      • Larry says:

        In a nut shell, it says that at any time when a government becomes oppressive to the point of abusing its citizens, the citizens (who give the government its power) have every right and even a duty to throw off that government and form a new system that will protect their basic rights: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

        Since it is the very foundation of our Constitution, I consider that to also mean that I have a right to ignore laws that infringe upon my rights. The Second Amendment of the Constitution says “the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”. Therefore, any law that “infringes” that right through prohibition, restriction, regulation, etc. is an illegal law and I have a right to ignore it. The same thing applies to laws that, like Bob is talking about, infringe upon our rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

  26. Patricia says:

    The Morality of Full Time Van Dwelling and RVing
    So well said, Bob. You have said a truth honestly without accusation, just reasoning. I have followed your Van Life for a while and support all the thinking that this is a life that makes your life a life worth living. You are an inspiration.

  27. Danell says:

    You’re a brave man to voice these opinions. I can’t say I disagree. Well done.

    • Bob Bob says:

      Thank you Danell, everyone who who move into a van is a brave person, swimming against the tide. They all the deserve the credit!

  28. bk says:

    This is more than interesting.

  29. jeff johnston says:

    Bob, youre getting feisty in your old age! LOL

  30. whitey says:

    I’m having trouble reading the comments on this post. It says there are none.

  31. Izaak says:

    Very thought provoking blog. Are y’all “leeches”, or is it Wal Mart that gets a wide variety of tax breaks and pays its workers so low they have to be on food stamps? Is it me when I was unemployed using Obamacare to get surgery or all the banks we bailed out seven years ago? A lot of van dwellers work and consequently pay taxes. Also, since you are off grid you do not require city water or sewer service (or the fire department) or other forms of “evil socialism.” I guess I am not unbiased seeing as I totally agree with your lifestyle and we be with y’all in an instant if I didn’t have a family, but I see your “transgressions” as minor compared to the shenanigans that goes on in the world.

    • Bob Bob says:

      Izaak, it’s all a matter of Friction Against the Machine, We will all disagree about where, when and how is best.

  32. adam says:

    beautifully said.

  33. Magpye says:

    Bravo, Bob. Governments do not have a conscience and thus are prone to the ills you delineated.

    I try to live by the Wiccan Rede. An it harm none,do what you will.

    Thank you for continuing to advocate for freedom of mobile housing. I can’t imagine the number of lives you have saved with your affordable alternatives to the so called American Dream.
    I count myself among them.

    Magpye Minifree

    • Bob Bob says:

      Thank you so much Magpye!! While I’m not Wiccan (or any other organized religion) I consider your Rede to be the pinnacle of morality and work hard to follow it myself.

  34. Joe Omundson says:

    I agree very much with your article, I am living the same mission as you and it is encouraging to see your passion for making a change. I love the idea of living your life happily, and letting it be friction in the machine. Thank you for writing this!

    I have 2 questions, about things you mentioned briefly but didn’t go into detail about:

    -You talk about taking advantage of the system as much as possible; unemployment, insurance, I assume food stamps, and things like that. While I would never argue that using these things is a drain on society (we should use our money to help support people’s lives, not on corporate bailouts and war), I feel like taking food stamps, for example, when I am truly capable of finding other ways to provide for myself, would only reduce the amount available to people who are truly disabled or otherwise incapable of providing for themselves. The more people who depend on these systems, the more certain politicians are going to want to cut their funding, so isn’t it more compassionate to leave those resources available for people truly in need?

    -You said people often criticize you for being a hypocrite, depending on society while advocating dropping out from it. I get it — it would be pretty damn hard to drop out completely. And by staying involved to some degree, we actually have more power to influence other people who are still in the system. We are still making a big change even if we rely on the current infrastructure somewhat.

    But I have to be honest, seeing your Amazon affiliate link promo, in the middle of your discussion about child labor in China, struck me as highly ironic; isn’t Amazon part of the problem? Why have you chosen this particular method of funding, did you weigh out the pros and cons and decide that this was the most harmless compromise? Or perhaps you think a company like Amazon is doing a good thing overall by streamlining the economic process and removing the need for retail stores?

    Just interested to hear your thoughts on those things. Thanks again 🙂

    • Bob Bob says:

      Joe, you raise many great and provocative points! Thank you! My problem is that answering them is the equivalent of writing a blog post–and my time is so very limited.

      Let me say it as simply as possible: Head in the Clouds–feet on the Ground. This post is head in the clouds (by which I mean living by principles, ideas and theories) which every human should do! But a retired woman living on $700 a month SS doesn’t need head in the clouds–she needs to shop at Walmart!! She needs to eat, not theories!!! I’m not going to pile guilt on her for ideas! Anybody that wants to scold her for living the best life she can, that’s a decision they have to make for themselves. But you should walk a mile in her shoes first.

      Amazon is also feet on the ground. I need to make a living, I work full-time on getting the word out, I can’t go get another job or this whole thing I’m trying to do ends. I don’t believe that’s the best choice I can make. I think this is the bet compromise possible.

      During WW II the French Resistance went to work during the day to feed themselves and their family. They probably supported the German war machine in some way. At night they blew up German trains. Head in the clouds, Feet on the Ground.

      You be the most Friction to the Machine you can, in what little ways you can.

      • Joe Omundson says:

        Thanks for the reply Bob, I understand your time is limited.

        Certainly I wouldn’t blame a retired SS recipient for shopping at Walmart. I don’t really think I have much room to criticize where people shop or don’t shop, and I think the amount of product you buy is more important than where you buy it. I’m sure I will use Amazon again soon too.

        Still, the average retired person struggling to get by is not trying to live their life as a philosophical example to the world, so you might expect to receive more criticism than the average person for an Amazon ad, when it’s literally placed inside a rant against the fact that buying products from China destroys the planet. Maybe if it was at the very beginning or ending of the post it would be less jarring, just an idea 🙂 But I see how if writing is your only gig, you have to eat somehow, and this is it… wouldn’t it be nice if people would donate money?

        I am working on building my writing skills on my blog, and hoping if I do a great job maybe in 10 years my writing can support me (as I am not trying to monetize it). I haven’t worked in over 2 years, just been coasting on savings from when I used to be an engineer, but now I am almost out of money so I’m looking for a side job.

        My idea is to be a real estate photographer — get paid to drive way out to rural properties and take pictures. To me this is ideal because I get to travel around on my own time and see nice places. Somehow it feels better to me than using Amazon affiliate links… but is it really? I’m still burning diesel (even if I do get 48 MPG), and by providing quality pictures to realtors, I am hastening the purchase and use of rural land which would otherwise lie dormant. I guess it is quite difficult to find any way to participate in our monetary system without adding to the destruction of the planet. And that is why I hate money so much! If healthcare were guaranteed to be free I think I would simply learn to do without money entirely.
        Joe Omundson recently posted…dreamMy Profile

        • Bob Bob says:

          Joe, you are obviously a very intelligent, ethical person, and I’m honored that you take the time to read my stuff and comment. Thank you!!

          Real estate photographer sounds like an ideal job for a nomad on many levels, I hope that works out very well for you! I wonder of expanding that to videos also might work well for you?

          I am confused though as one decision I made is to never have ads in my content. All the ads are on the sidebar. The only “ads” in the content is links to Amazon when I’m reviewing or recommending a product, but I don’t ever remember putting one in a philosophical piece–that would be illogical, jarring and break your concentration. Are you on mobile? If so, I don’t think I have direct control over that, it’s handled differently–to be honest, I don’t even know how it works. My webmaster may have set it up, I don’t know.

          • Joe Omundson says:

            Thanks Bob. Videos might be a good idea, and getting some kind of drone for aerial photography could be a desirable thing too.

            This is the jarring part I was talking about. Not using a mobile platform
            Joe Omundson recently posted…nostalgia & connectionMy Profile

          • Bob Bob says:

            I see Joe, yes, that is always at the bottom of every post. That was the VERY FIRST TIME, there has ever been anything after it and I saw it strictly as a footnote. Sometimes I may put photos after it. 99% of the time there is no content after it, it’s the end of the post.

            We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

  35. Sameer says:

    Once you escape the Ant are Free! A life of Peace and Happiness awaits. You are truly in charge of your own life. The Nomad life is Freedom! The way we are supposed to live…

  36. Teri Live Oak Fl says:

    I always enjoy your thought provoking subjects. It takes courage to flow against the current.

  37. Robert says:

    Great piece of work Bob. I sent an email feel free to cut and past if you like. I thought it came here may be at your in box. Thanks Friend Robert (Sacto,Ca.)

  38. signalfire says:

    There’s photos attached to this but I don’t know how to post them; pictures of hunting licenses, driver’s licenses and such, but the crux of the issue is with the legal findings:

    Licensing Liberty –

    “No State shall convert a liberty into a license, and charge a fee therefore.” (Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105);

    “If the State converts a right (liberty) into a privilege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right (liberty) with impunity.” (Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham, Alabama, 373 U.S. 262)

  39. I’m totally with ya, Bob.
    Al Christensen recently posted…Into the woodsMy Profile

  40. Calvin Rittenhouse says:

    Small point about Walmart: don’t count on them having the lowest prices any more. More and more, the dollar stores, Aldi’s (in the east), and even mainstream chains such as Kroger’s and Lowe’s are often beating their prices.

    Medium point: Your statement “I’m offering people, real viable options no matter how much cash they have or how much comes in per month” is a bit overstated. I am not unusual among people I know personally in having less than $50 in cash/resources available and an income of $733 per month. That is a challenge to what you said, because I have no way of acquiring a motor vehicle that would be reliable. Remember that I have to live somewhere until I get that vehicle on the road.

    Larger point: I am basically in agreement with your points about society, although I don’t use the absolute terms you do. I have little respect for laws just because they are on the books, either. However, I have “tribe” where I am. Many who follow this blog did not when they took to the road. I have come to value in-person friends very highly since 2013, and that has nothing to do with conforming. I’m not sure any more that I need to be nomadic to be free or to have a very small carbon footprint and a minimalist life.

    • Steve says:

      Very well said Calvin!!! I agree, you don’t need to be nomadic to be free. I am just as free as anyone else to do what I want to do. Of course I am limited to some of the kinds of things because of money or lack of enough. But there are plenty of things to do in this country for free. All I have to do is go there.
      Even in every city or town I have been to has some sort of nature area, attraction, or events that are interesting and fun. I have found in my road trips that most towns and cities are different but much the same in certain aspects. Sometimes the grass seems greener til you get there and then you remember that what you had left wasn’t really that bad.

    • Bob Bob says:

      Thanks Calvin, as always I very much value your input–it’s always wise and well thought out!

  41. dharma says:

    I, quite arrogantly, boycotted Walmart for some time years ago for many reasons. Many of those reasons have been reiterated by others in replies to this post. That said, the universe has a great way of teaching us about ignorance and will nudge you, tap you on the shoulder, or use a 2×4 for us to take the opportunity to look at life differently. As has happened to many people that I know, and probably by many reading your blog, my life imploded and I was given the opportunity to see things in a different light.

    Bob, you’ve brought up many excellent points. With the way the system is set up, no one should abide by all the rules yet no one can be a total rebel … for now. 🙂

    The only actual question that I have is what happens when you, or anyone you know, comes across law enforcement? Do they ever ask if you have an actual address/residence/domicile? How has that been handled and have you noticed any changes in the last year or so?

    Not sure of the source, but a quote that my uncle always said: “I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man that had no feet”. Until you’ve walked in another’s shoes …

    • Bob Bob says:

      Dharma, I really appreciate your comment! One time, I did run into a LEO who made an issue if I actually lived anywhere, but that was such a very localized situation that I don’t think it’s an issue to go into. Also, many states if you have out of state plates and you are actually spending a lot of time in their state want you to get your vehicle registered and a Drivers Liense in that state. But that is a different issue I think.

      Basically no, it won;t be a problem with LEOs.


    Thank you for posting this as my son and I are about to take off for the west from the east.I am nervous to say the least so your words were spoken in due time….well done..from an about to be minivan dweller…Namaste all

  43. Ming says:

    Hi Bob,

    you make some good points. If anyone wants to find some real leeches who don’t pay their fair share of taxes, look at the Panama papers and their friends in government who won’t close the loopholes that make this possible and legal.

    And if people are serious about consuming less, they could consider having fewer kids. Or working against income inequality, which fuels this worldwide system of slavery rather than coming down on poor people who are trying to survive from month to month on less than $1000.

    I mean, isn’t it so much easier to do that than to try fix corporate corruption that siphons off billions of dollars from the taxes that are supposed to provide services for everyone?

  44. Susan says:

    Hi Bob,
    Thanks for a thoughtful and emotionally charged article! There is nothing worse than complacency and submission to a system that is hell bent on ignoring the cries of the soul. A system that sucks each and every one of us into a dismal and destructive spiral of reliance in various forms of owing to the bank, mandatory insurance, healthcare, settling for meager wages and pathetic social security allotments, having to purchase food instead of growing or foraging, etc. ad nauseum. Through our choices and buying power, we entangle ourselves into helplessness and therefore become reliant on a system that feigns support while it only serves itself in mass consumerism and warfare, racism and social-economic class distinction and the subsequent killing of our beloved planet. What to do with all the innocent plants and animals who are not capable of consumerism? Kill ’em. This indoctrination begins as a child with numerous ads and plenty of peer pressure; it is honed during the entirety of our k-12 education and then we are ripe to swallow our first big ticket item, a college loan, house or car or perhaps all three. We think this is freedom and it amazes me that people actually think they are free. Freedom has nothing to do with the freedom to buy. If the military police wanted to detain us in our homes, they could absolutely and completely do this, just take a look at New Orleans during hurricane Katrina when martial law was enforced.While I continue to disentangle myself from this mess, I continue to rely upon your opinions such as this article and evermore on your practical instructions on what works best in the nomad life. Keep on truckin’

  45. Cae says:

    Just because some government says something is illegal doesn’t have much meaning when you consider there are all kinds of governments that are corrupt and brutal. I’m sure law breakers were severely dealt with in nazi Germany.

  46. James Dimon says:

    Great job Bob! As you know, this one really hits home with me as of late. Getting a new drivers license, feeling a bit less than dignified about certain parts of the process. Thank you for this post!

    • Bob Bob says:

      James, I know what you mean, my whole way of thinking and seeing the world is slowly evolving. Maybe we are growing up! Nahhhhhhhh!

  47. John Bruce says:

    “It is not always the same thing to be a good man and a good citizen.” ~ Aristotle

    All great quotes, but this one is my favorite.

    A side note: There is a guy running for a local government seat who I actually like but I told him that he and his wife are to damn perfect, their hair and clothes are always neat and orderly, they drive a fancy car that is always washed. I suggested messing it up a bit to look normal. Many of the perfectionists I have known were unhappy about everything. In the lifestyle you represent, perfection is a direction and getting there is most of the fun!

    • Bob Bob says:

      John, I totally agree! One of the reasons Trump is so popular is he’s so weird–he’s like all of us! He says stupid things in odd ways, and that hair!! But all real people say stupid things and have real physical defects!! Only automatons are perfect all the time and who can trust them!

  48. Thank you for the Ayn Rand quote!

  49. J says:

    Bob, I’ve read most if not all of your blog, read your book, and watched videos by you, James, and Kyndal, so I’m pretty much up to speed on your philosophy and so forth. Some of it I agree, some of it I don’t, that’s what makes horse races. But I feel you have overreached a bit this time. And I say that with all due respect. You want to live a certain lifestyle, and that’s wonderful, however your lifestyle is made possible by the very same people, the folks pursuing the American Dream, you say are causing “irreversible damage.” We all can’t live in a nomadic lifestyle, someone has to build the RV’s, keep the lights, and grow the food.

    Now, I admire your lifestyle and hope to immolate it someday after I retire and I know there are challenges ahead with regards to the laws of our country. I feel we can all stay pretty much stay inside the law, with a minor exception here and there, but that’s no big thing. Look how many folks have gotten along fine over the last few years. I think we need to focus on that. So, love your blog keep it up. And those videos are great!

    • Bob Bob says:

      Thanks J, I very much appreciate your very thoughtful comment!!

      Let me answer by just saying one thing, I agree totally!!!! I have no solutions, in fact I’m very convinced there are no solutions!!

      But one thing is the Rock Solid Bottom Line–WE CAN NOT AND MUST NOT KEEP DOING WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW!! Things MUST change, and they MUST change yesterday. From my reading, I’m certain it’s too late to avoid environmental catastrophe, we’re either right on or gone over the edge. But, either way, feedback loops are in place and we will be pulled over.

      But any decent sense of morality says we have to try anyway, we have to do everything we can to prevent it. By 2030 we must be carbon neutral–not putting more carbon into the air than nature takes out. If we were willing to deal with the massive disruption, it might could be done. But we won’t try, nobody wants to change the status quo.

      The way we live now MUST stop.

  50. Canine says:

    You’ve helped me tremendously and the people I’m in contact with indirectly because of my improved lifestyle. I am far less wasteful. I am also able to contribute to society better than I had. My burdens on society are greatly lessened. For example: the drought in California would have little effect on me. Not enough water? I average around 10 gallons a week and that includes bathing, cooking, the dog, etc. Fire? I’ll move. No need to burden insurance companies and their stakeholders with rebuilding a $90,000 house. I would not be a burden to work or my family because I wouldn’t need time off to get a new house. Neither would I be emotionally drained; I would be happy. Furthermore, I would much more likely to be in a position to help people in a disaster instead of being one who needed help; that is truly contributing to society.

    I’m still making improvements; Rome wasn’t built in a day. 🙂

  51. Zman says:

    Al Gore… Need I say more? Yah sure crazy,lunatic crazy lunatic…

  52. signalfire says:

    If a space-faring group of aliens came across our planet and started burning resources, killing whole populations and polluting the planet the way we have been, we would stop them by any means necessary. Yet we ‘allow’ this all to happen now based on a murderous form of capitalism and a lot of flag waving and patriotic blather.

    Time for a change. Bob, if you haven’t yet heard of them, research the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project which are advocating much the same ideas as you.

  53. Zman says:

    Yes you will need to say more…
    Did these 97 percent agree with Gore in January 2006 when Gore claimed we may have only 10 years left to save the planet from turning into a total frying pan”..

    • Calvin Rittenhouse says:

      Unfortunately, the conversation now is about how to minimize the damage. Large-scale disruption is under way, whether or not people in a given location have had to feel it yet.

    • Bob Bob says:

      Zman, the majority of them believe it is already too late, they just won’t say it out loud in public for fear of being crucified. And they’re right, they will be crucified. Anyone who brings a hard truth that no one wants to hear, is generally punished in some way.

      All these years later you are still crucifying Al Gore with personal attacks. Not with the science, just personal attacks. Here’s the answer to your question: Ask those farmers in India who are killing themselves if they think the world is turning into a frying pan.

      Based on all my reading of the science, we are much too late, the die is cast and disaster is coming.

      Scientists aren’t allowed to be emotional (it destroys their credibility) but anymore it’s becoming very difficult for them to restrain themselves. When you watch the planet dying right in front of you over a course of years and decades–and you know all too well the incomprehensible human suffering that will come of it–it’s very hard to remain silent.

      Sadly, they do remain silent, they keep publishing papers and reports proving their point but as soon as they do people with zero knowledge of science mock and distort it or call them liars and fools–or accuse them of falsifying data for profit. Or worse, the world just ignores it, pretending it isn’t there. Here’s a quote from that newspaper article link above:

      Dr Laxman Singh Rathore, the IMD’s director general, firmly pinned the blame for the rising temperatures on climate change, noting the trend dated back about 15 years.
      “It has been observed that since 2001, places in northern India, especially in Rajasthan, are witnessing a rising temperature trend every year,” he said in a statement.
      “The main reason is the excessive use of energy and emission of carbon dioxide.

      But, he’s obviously either a liar or fool isn’t he?

      And the destruction goes on-an-on to it’s inevitable end.

      One day the horror will be so obvious to everybody that they will have no choice but speak out and people will listen intently and believe, but it will be much too late by then.

  54. Cathy P. says:

    I got a American Community Survey put out by the Census Bureau. It said there could be a $5,000 fine if I did not complete/return it. It asked detailed info on our house down to cost of utilities, internet stuff, phones, etc. It also asked about everyone in the house, even time going to and coming from work. It was probably 10 pages of intensive questions and required name & address. I did some research online and it was legitimate and some had their videos of the enforcement person coming to the door and demanding the answers. The statement about the fine and the postcards that followed were intimidating. I decided I would fight it necessary and even pay $5,000 not to answer. I have no secrets but it wasn’t their or anyone’s business. They did not send out enforcement. I heard they even stalked people waiting in cars for them to go outside. This along with taking my adult son with DS to a doctor’s appt. and being asked if we had weapons in the house has set me on a path. Brought up on the 10 Commandments, and glad about that, but there is a line that is being crossed now. I let my inner self decide where to draw the line. Force me to answer a question and you’ll get an answer deemed appropriate by me. I think we all have to depend on our internal moral being to make decisions, but know there may be a price. Often, value exceeds price. I don’t understand the hostility toward the website, I say “take it or leave it”. Oh, I have seen a lot of people lose everything going for that little piece of land dream, so complicated and risky. Sure, I’d love to live in Mayberry like Andy Taylor as would many, it doesn’t exist anywhere. I looked!

    • Bob Bob says:

      Cathy, that is frightening! I think yo are making a wise decision! One advantage I have, is they will probably never find me!

  55. ILDan says:

    Morality based in hypocrisy…I understand it

  56. Dave R says:

    Many like-minded folks here! See you all in a few weeks…

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