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Hiding Places for Valuables?
#31
Wolf and I both put on weight as we got older. With him it is genetic. With me it is bad eating habits that I could get away with 40 years ago, but not now. We have both also been losing weight since we hit the road. The small space forces us outside so we are more active. Still, you can't stop the clock.
Jean, with hubby and Whiz, the sort-of-bichon, in a 2008 32 ft Gulfstream Independence with a Ford Fiesta dinghy.
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#32
(07-02-2014, 05:11 PM)akrvbob Wrote: So some of my money is safely hidden in a 6 months supply of food, which I doubt anyone would want to steal--yet.
Bob

I have a 90 day supply of emergency food, but it's fairly bulky and there isn't quite room for it in the van. How would one carry 6 months of food in the van? I'm curious how it can be done.
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#33
Remember I live in a converted cargo trailer I tow with an extended van so I have more room than most.

But, it is easier than you think! Here is a post describing my Survival Pantry.
http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/povert...od-pantry/

Bob
2015 GMC Savannah 2500 van, 480 watts of Solar Panels--and a wonderful furry best friend named Cody. I'm out to change the world!
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#34
Hmmm - a lot to comment on.

I enforced Ohio laws for 28 years and there is no law permitting confiscation of a vehicle just for having a hidden compartment. If there is evidence the compartment was used for illegal purposes, such as a dusting of white powder field testing positive for opiates, that's a different matter. Just for having a hidden compartment, no.

There is no legal precedent, or historical illegal occurrence, of the 'the government' arbitrarily grabbing money from the banks. Freezing individual accounts or confiscating assets used or acquired illegally, and seized with a court order - yes.

The value of precious metals is speculative, volatile, and will not hold value in emergency situations: you can't eat it, drink, and the metal is too soft to make a viable tool. Tools which can aid in building shelters and acquiring food will be more valuable than pretty, but worthless, metals.

If the economic situation becomes so bad the banks fail, which has never happened, we're all screwed anyway. The stock market crash of 1929, in itself, was not so terrible - what was terrible is the stock market was relatively new and investors, brokerages and bankers didn't know how to handle the situation when the general populace got frightened and started a run on the banks. Should the same events occur today, there are procedures to handle it, and most investors wouldn't panic, but wait it out.

Reasonable inflation is the sign of a healthy economy and market, and isn't an issue unless individual earnings don't grow at the same rate. Deflation is the bigger problem.

(07-02-2014, 08:22 PM)66788 Wrote: The problem is not with the banks losing your money, it's with the dollar itself. Anyone with assets denominated in US dollars is holding a toxic asset.

Hard assets are the only way to preserve wealth. Tools, guns, silver and gold etc. You don't have to believe that this will happen for it to affect you. It's kind of like gravity. Not just a good idea; It's the law!

The US dollar is globally the most stable and least volatile currency - it's the currency the global market is based on, and is considered by foreign investors - governments included - to be the most stable vehicle for investments.

If it gets to the point that tools and guns are the priority, as I said before, we're all screwed anyway and your 90 days of food will prolong your starvation by about 90 days - unless someone more proficient with their guns takes it away from you sooner than that. If it's that bad, the situation's not going improve in 90 days so you're attempting to prolong the inevitable. Mankind will eventually destroy itself eventually, but I doubt in my lifetime; or my son's

(07-03-2014, 06:15 PM)Bdog1 Wrote: Thx 66788.
You can get your money "stolen" without even opening the safe door. The loss in purchasing power is due to inflation. (The inflation we don't have according to the government.) There's no need to drive around to the banks and load it all up!

According to government agencies, inflation is currently just beneat 2%. Financial NGOs agree with the assesment.

(07-02-2014, 05:11 PM)akrvbob Wrote: I'm pretty pessimistic for the future, especially for American dollars. Inflation is so much more likely than all the other risks we face and probably more devastating to most of us. That's the thief I'm worried about. 10 years of 10% inflation will solve the government debt problem, but also wipe out your 401Ks and savings accounts. History and common sense say that you can't have this level of government debt without ending up with inflation.

So some of my money is safely hidden in a 6 months supply of food, which I doubt anyone would want to steal--yet. Also in guns, ammo and other survival basics. Also in gold and silver kept off-site. Inflation proof.
Bob

Inflation will not solve the government debt problem - inflated dollars do not go into government coffers. Government debt may lead to an increase in taxes - but that's not inflation. Two completely different animals. Precious metals are far more precarious, for reasons I gave above. When the situation gets that bad, who's going to give you food for a handful of metal with no survival value ?

Common sense is generally not that common, and I'm interested in what historical events you are referring to. Economics is a hobby of mine, and I'd be interested in the specific examples you have in mind.

Seems we got off topic lol.

I keep several lock boxes, one 'fireproof' secured in various locations. It would take someone searching a bit of time to find them, and they'd need some heavy duty tools to remove them. They can be welded in place. A heavy chain can be welded to the boxes, and secured around a frame member, or the other part of the chain can be welded to the frame, if necessary.
"It's always darkest just before lightning scares the crap out of you."
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#35
If you've only wood to attach a lockbox to, run case hardened bolts through a 2x4, or somesuch, then after tightening the nut, weld the nut to the bolt.
"It's always darkest just before lightning scares the crap out of you."
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#36
(07-02-2014, 08:55 PM)jeanontheroad Wrote: Land might good, the kind of land that can support you. But gold and silver are not safe. They are risky, volatile investments. In many of the forms that you are allowed to physically keep it (jewelry, coins), you pay way more way than it is worth for it.

In the kind of SHTF situation survivalists worry about, how would you spend it or keep it safe? It may make you a target for violent people who wouldn't bother you, otherwise. It's heavy as hell to drag around. If you try to hide it, anyone with a metal detector can find it. Maybe someone just stumbles across it. You can't eat it or drink it and it uses up too much of your energy.

If you want an inflation-proof investment for some of your money, you are best of with mutual funds that mirror the S&P 500. Yes, they will go up and down. But historically, they have not only beaten inflation , they have also done better than other types of managed funds over time. The secret is time and the iron nerves to sit tight while the market slumps. If you don't have other money and can't afford to sit tight, you can end up in trouble.

+1, in general

Whether you invest in stock funds - such as those based on the S&P500 or Morningstar Total Stock indexes - or on bond funds which track indexes such as the Barclays Aggregate index, depends on whether you are in an accumulation phase or at/near the phase you'll be taking money out of investments. There are blended funds which hold both stocks and bonds in one fund in a fixed ratio - such as Vanguards wellington fund. These are less volatile due to bond holdings and better than pure stock funds if you plan to withdraw money. If you have a long horizon - 10 years or more - before you plan to take any money out, pure stock funds might be fine - but if you need money when the stock market is in a dip or a recession, you're going to lose money at best, and possibly clean out the account faster than planned.

If anyone is really interested, let me know, and I'll start a thread on stocks, bonds, funds and portfolios, though I already posted two excellent educational links on the topic at Vanguard and Morningstar.

Back to the original thread - sorry if I contributed to it being hijacked.
"It's always darkest just before lightning scares the crap out of you."
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#37
(11-01-2014, 08:42 PM)Seraphim Wrote: I enforced Ohio laws for 28 years and there is no law permitting confiscation of a vehicle just for having a hidden compartment. If there is evidence the compartment was used for illegal purposes, such as a dusting of white powder field testing positive for opiates, that's a different matter. Just for having a hidden compartment, no.

Man arrested for hidden compartment, no drugs found

More

Reason:
"In addition to fines and prison time, Illinois law and New Jersey’s bill
threaten another penalty: civil asset forfeiture. (Two bills killed in the
Virginia General Assembly this year would have as well.)

With civil forfeiture, police are under no obligation return a seized vehicle if prosecutors decide not to proceed with a criminal case or if the jury decides to acquit. Once police take a vehicle, property owners generally must file a lawsuit to get it back.

Police and prosecutors naturally like this arrangement; they usually get to keep seized vehicles or the profits from auctioning them off. But the process is a nightmare for property owners, who are considered guilty until proven innocent."



Arrested for hidden compartment with two cell phones in it

Pennsylvania:

"Consistent with criminal code associated with other instruments of crime, compartments would only be illegal if there is an 'intent' to use them for a crime. It is unclear if the interpretation would be limited to clear intent, such as a confession, or if mere possession of a secret compartment itself could be interpreted as evidence of intent to use it for other criminal acts. The language appears to leave the questions for officers, prosecutors and juries to decide."

Regards
John
Regards
John

Life is not about discovering yourself.  Life is about creating yourself!

Talk is cheap because of simple economics: The supply FAR exceeds the demand!
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#38
If you really need something, how about something like a fuse box, out in the open, with a few wires running out of it. Put your will and passport and vehicle title in it to establish what it is intended for, and whatever else you feel you want to keep safe. Anyone who keeps too much money where thieves or fire or accident can get it is really taking a risk. Banks may be run by pirates, but they aren't allowed to steal directly out of your safety deposit box and there are rules about what they can take out of your account.
Jean, with hubby and Whiz, the sort-of-bichon, in a 2008 32 ft Gulfstream Independence with a Ford Fiesta dinghy.
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#39
(11-02-2014, 09:53 AM)Optimistic Paranoid Wrote: Man arrested for hidden compartment, no drugs found

More

Reason:
"In addition to fines and prison time, Illinois law and New Jersey’s bill
threaten another penalty: civil asset forfeiture. (Two bills killed in the
Virginia General Assembly this year would have as well.)

With civil forfeiture, police are under no obligation return a seized vehicle if prosecutors decide not to proceed with a criminal case or if the jury decides to acquit. Once police take a vehicle, property owners generally must file a lawsuit to get it back.

Police and prosecutors naturally like this arrangement; they usually get to keep seized vehicles or the profits from auctioning them off. But the process is a nightmare for property owners, who are considered guilty until proven innocent."



Arrested for hidden compartment with two cell phones in it

Pennsylvania:

"Consistent with criminal code associated with other instruments of crime, compartments would only be illegal if there is an 'intent' to use them for a crime. It is unclear if the interpretation would be limited to clear intent, such as a confession, or if mere possession of a secret compartment itself could be interpreted as evidence of intent to use it for other criminal acts. The language appears to leave the questions for officers, prosecutors and juries to decide."

Regards
John

Here's the actual law. Notice the 'intent' section, and notice the original report indicated the overwhelming odor of marijuana.

"To enact section 2923.241 of the Revised Code to prohibit designing, building, constructing, fabricating, modifying, or altering a vehicle to create or add a hidden compartment with the intent to facilitate the unlawful concealment or transportation of a controlled substance, prohibit operating, possessing, or using a vehicle with a hidden compartment with knowledge that the hidden compartment is used or intended to be used to facilitate the unlawful concealment or transportation of a controlled substance, and prohibit a person who has committed a first or second degree felony violation of aggravated trafficking in drugs from operating, possessing, or using a vehicle with a hidden compartment."

Personally, the case sounds weak to me, unless a drug dog medicated a hit on the vehicle. The officers have to prove the intent to use the compartment for illegal purposes, which may be dicey unless there's other info we don't know.

In your cell phone case, there was a hit from a drug canine. It seems a stronger case as a search warrant was obtained. As your last quote dictates, it's up to a jury to decide. None of these cases appear to have been adjudicated yet. The juries will eventually determine precedent.

Just having a hidden compartment for legitimate use is not illegal, however.

Above, 'medicated' should be 'indicated'

I'm curious if the probable cause hearing on the Ohio case will uphold the officers judgement on probable cause. It's a new law, enacted after my retirement.

And again, the tent has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I'll follow the Ohio case.

'Intent'
"It's always darkest just before lightning scares the crap out of you."
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#40
(Sigh) News articles these days often give whatever half of the story that agrees with the organization's political views or is likely to excite their readers. The rest of the story either doesn't get covered at all or gets covered by another organization that emphasizes their point of view.
Jean, with hubby and Whiz, the sort-of-bichon, in a 2008 32 ft Gulfstream Independence with a Ford Fiesta dinghy.
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