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Wood Gasification
#31
Well I figure a 1000 pounds would squat a 1/2 ton pretty well. The whole process of cutting down, hauling out, cutting to split size, splitting and stacking, a day easy. That's a lot for one person, even one of my size. Luckily it was usually a group and trucks of wood to be processed. At least it was dived up and cut to size, Then my brother and I got to split and stack

Tools

Ice tongs for the larger pieces. Our family had a number of hand saws and three chain saws. I uses the stubby and 20 inch, a neighbor had some real monsters. You'll need a troth for cutting, a wheel barrow and the real fun, splitting. powered splitters are easy but slower than all get out. A two sided Michigan axe can pop hard wood all day faster than the powered ones. Fruit wood sparks when axe split, fun to do at dusk. For brute force I had, and they were mine too, a 12 pound maul, 12 pound short sledge and a 16 pound long. I had four wedges but usually only needed two. You don't need the wedges when the wood is hard frozen, hit it hard enough with the 16er and it'll just crack open.

Oh yeah. A pair of really good snowmobile gloves. Wood is hard, sharp and heavy. It takes it's toll on your hands.

After reading the article I have to admit I didn't understand the concept was so refined and used by so many at one time. I can understand you enthusiasm even if I agree that there are a great number of hurdles to be considered. It should be interesting if you can get it all worked out. All I can do is tell you what it's like to be a slave to the wood.
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gsfish (02-13-2016)
#32
I disagree, it isn't such a big project for someone with the needed skills, tools and bankroll. However for someone with none of those requirements it would certainly be daunting.

I am perplexed... are you seriously expecting people (strangers) to give you their hard earned money so you can pursue this dream? To supply the materials and labor as well? Of all your posts and all the references to money I have never seen you refer to having worked to earn a dollar nor have you expressed much interest in doing so.

More power to you if you get this done but it is never going to get one step closer to completion without real world MONEY! I'll keep my money thanks but there is plenty of money out there for you too, just go get you some. Seriously!

Guy
"We're all bozos on the bus, so might as well sit back and enjoy the ride."

Wavy Gravy

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#33
I still say you will need tens of thousands of dollars worth of tools to be able to build a unit in 250 hours.
Trouble rather a tiger in his lair than a sage at his books. To you kingdoms and armies are mighty and enduring, to him they are toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger. G Dickson.
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#34
(02-13-2016, 09:57 PM)flying kurbmaster Wrote: I have never seen a woodgasification vehicle driving down the road. Do they exist?

Apparently, they actually DO exist.  Check out the article on "wood gas generator" on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator

It has pictures of a Dodge V10 pickup with the gas generator in the back and a Saab pulling a trailer with a gas generator on it.

Another pick up with a generator in the back set the world land speed record for biomass powered vehicles at Bonneville in 2011.  73 mph.

Regards
John
Regards
John

Life is not about discovering yourself.  Life is about creating yourself!

Talk is cheap because of simple economics: The supply FAR exceeds the demand!
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#35
(02-13-2016, 08:11 PM)TMG51 Wrote: If I may make a constructive observation, there's a pattern every time you post one of these threads. You ask a question, people give advice on the question/premise, you ignore all of the advice and keep repeating yourself. Why ask the question at all? Is that what is happening?

You've clearly spent a lot of time researching this. I would suggest that, even if the numbers you've found suit you, they are likely best-case numbers and they are definitely coming from people with the resources, fabrication skills and their own wood supplies to make it feasible. I believe they are typical/average-case numbers. Note what was before "250 hours", the words "At least"; meaning the lowest amount of hours for one person to build a working system. You're right, I don't have thousands of dollars in fabricating equipment but I have the basics. For example, it WILL take longer to cut a 3" metal pipe in two with a angle grinder and/or reciprocating saw than using a plasma cutter. But it CAN still be done with lesser tools, just takes more work. So in my case, going by fundamentals (needing to learn to weld, having lesser tools) it will be closer to 350 hours of labor or maybe more. Which is still a great time investment for something that gets me to CANADA this summer, and fuels me for every trip after that (each mile being cheaper than the last one due to amortization). Even with all the extra work to run the system, it's cheaper per-mile than gas. Now it may sound like I keep reiterating the same arguments, post after post; the reason why is people keep disparaging woodgasification. Burning Man 2015 is my LAST trip running on gasoline!!!
...
I don't think anyone here has told you that you can't do this. But you're not going to have any perspective of the difficulties without some practical experience. Very true, there will be delays, difficulties, learning curves and setbacks. I am learning how to have thought processes and patterns for success, and breaking down this monentus project into little steps. One step has been switched around, I planned to buy the trailer after the system is built; but with mom and dad being non-supportive and wanting to scrap the water heaters picked up as materials, I decided to buy the trailer Early and lock the project onto the trailer so they can't/won't scrap it.

the only other project I have taken up at this magnitude is modifying the van. If you want to see my determination and track record, just look at the progress towards making the van into a microapartment.



(02-13-2016, 10:18 PM)jimindenver Wrote: Well I figure a 1000 pounds would squat a 1/2 ton pretty well. The whole process of cutting down, hauling out, cutting to split size, splitting and stacking, a day easy. That's a lot for one person, even one of my size. Luckily it was usually a group and trucks of wood to be processed. At least it was dived up and cut to size, Then my brother and I got to split and stack Thank you for sharing the real work involved with processing wood. Since I will be a beginner with basic tools intially after being up and running, I will double the time to 2 days to process 1000 pounds of wood. One question, how many hours in that day were you working to processing wood? Answering that question will help me be realistic about wood processing time cost, and revise the "work-for-gasoline-at-minimum-wage vs work-for-yourself-processing-woodfuel" mile for mile money AND time cost equation. [b]This is how to be a dollar pincher folks, radically reduce ones biggest expenses instead of hundreds of little expenses. [/b]
Tools

Ice tongs for the larger pieces. Our family had a number of hand saws and three chain saws. I uses the stubby and 20 inch, a neighbor had some real monsters. You'll need a troth for cutting, a wheel barrow and the real fun, splitting. powered splitters are easy but slower than all get out. A two sided Michigan axe can pop hard wood all day faster than the powered ones. Fruit wood sparks when axe split, fun to do at dusk. For brute force I had, and they were mine too, a 12 pound maul, 12 pound short sledge and a 16 pound long. I had four wedges but usually only needed two. You don't need the wedges when the wood is hard frozen, hit it hard enough with the 16er and it'll just crack open.

Oh yeah. A pair of really good snowmobile gloves. Wood is hard, sharp and heavy. It takes it's toll on your hands. Plus one for you! Thanks you so much for all the wood processing advice!!!! This is the kind of discussion that truly helps people, because I now know the best hand tools for splitting wood and good gloves to wear to process it!!! Don't delete this thread!!!

After reading the article I have to admit I didn't understand the concept was so refined and used by so many at one time. I can understand you enthusiasm even if I agree that there are a great number of hurdles to be considered. Thanks for the good feedback? It should be interesting if you can get it all worked out. It will be interesting. All I can do is tell you what it's like to be a slave to the wood. A slave to the wood? Wood is a better Master than The Oil Monopoly. 

(02-13-2016, 11:05 PM)gsfish Wrote: I disagree, it isn't such a big project for someone with the needed skills, tools and bankroll. However for someone with none of those requirements it would certainly be daunting. It is really daunting, for a 22 year old poor boi who has parental subsidies and low skills. I am even asking myself if I can see this to completion... Then I ask myself "Do you want to get to CANADA?" and that answer is "Yes.". Next the question "Do you have the means right now to get to CANADA?" and it's "No". Then it's "Are you moving closer to having the means to get to CANADA, by running on wood?" And right now it's "Haven't moved a foot closer (figuratively and literally)" Anytime I am in a store or browsing an online one and I comtemplate a purchase "will 'item' get me to CANADA?" and the answer is many times "no".


[quote='GotSmart' pid='182021' dateline='1455427316']
I still say you will need tens of thousands of dollars worth of tools to be able to build a unit in 250 hours. Because of this consideration I've adjusted my expected labor hours upward to 350, which takes my learning curve, basic tools, and metal fabrication experience into consideration. 350 hours is still an amazing time cost bargain for the YEARS of freedom and cheap energy that will come out of this system. 
Working to earn my CDL so I can get ahead & LIVE LIFE!

debitservus.wordpress.com

Don't waste lifes precious time adorning your coffin, with diamonds. 
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#36
Quote:I still say you will need tens of thousands of dollars worth of tools to be able to build a unit in 250 hours. Because of this consideration I've adjusted my expected labor hours upward to 350, which takes my learning curve, basic tools, and metal fabrication experience into consideration. 350 hours is still an amazing time cost bargain for the YEARS of freedom and cheap energy that will come out of this system. 
I hate to burst your bubble~~~  dreamers are what built this country~~~

One experienced steel worker with the proper tools can do the work of ten experienced men without the tools.  
One experienced steel worker without the proper tools can do the work of five unskilled men (properly the first time) using basic garage tools. 

350 hours will not touch on the project.  Especially with no tools. 


Quote:TMG51 Wrote: [url=http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-Wood-Gasification?pid=181972#pid181972][/url]If I may make a constructive observation, there's a pattern every time you post one of these threads. You ask a question, people give advice on the question/premise, you ignore all of the advice and keep repeating yourself. Why ask the question at all? Is that what is happening? 
Yes.


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Trouble rather a tiger in his lair than a sage at his books. To you kingdoms and armies are mighty and enduring, to him they are toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger. G Dickson.
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#37
Is wood gasification even legal in Cali?
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain.

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#38
There is NO soliciting allowed on the forum.

All posts with regard to soliciting have been deleted or edited.

Please refrain form discussing this any further.
I'd like to give myself a few negative ratings, because I am such a big meanie. The forum won't allow it. Feel free!

Cyndi (made it across the cattle guard)
http://rvlyeverafter.blogspot.com/

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
~ Adam Savage
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#39
After doing a LOT of research on the feasibility of this project, among a ton of downsides, there is one downside that is just insurmountable to me.

   

Considering that the vehicle we are talking about for this project is going to be MUCH MUCH heavier than the pickup above, and it holds the world speed record at ONLY 73 MPH, on flat level ground...

I can't help but to conclude that this project would be a very big hazard on the road, especially on any hills.

IF a Mad Max type world ever becomes a reality, or gasoline totally disappears and nobody comes up with a better alternative, then maybe...  Until then, I think this project is going to be a huge money sucking, dangerous disaster.

I would also like to note that trading your time for money, as in a job, would undoubtedly be far easier work than the processing of wood for this project, and since you are going to need a job for a source of income anyway, a job would be killing two birds with one stone.

Your options are very limited here.  YOU NEED MONEY to succeed in this lifestyle or any other lifestyle.  So this pretty much boils down to a job, savings, or retirement/disability pay of some sort.

BTW, there is a GREAT business opportunity for you in San Jose right now, where you can lease a pedicab.  Just type in "pedicab" on Craigslist.  One van dweller I know made $300/day driving one.  Another full timer I know  owns a fleet of them, and leases them out.  He makes BIG money, something like $30k month, and pays a guy $40k/yr to run it all for him so it's a hands free business for him.  Not too shabby.
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#40
DS

You asked about how long a day was. Where I am from the day was done when the work was. When too much came in to do it in a day, it was done when the old man called it. I was happy to get my first real job, it was ONLY 8 hours a day.

Different woods are different to deal with. Dry Lodge pole pine melts under the saw and splits easy and is light. Get a load of green hard wood before the sap pulled down for the winter and every piece just weighs, blades dull and it only splits easy when frozen. ( thats why you cut in the winter, no sap) The longest time was for the old huge hard woods with ton of knots. Huge twisted rounds that weighed a ton and resisted splitting. Those have to be ripped apart slowly not popped. That takes a while.

So there is no answer, the wood, gear and technique will dictate that. One guy will force a saw, wear himself out and sharpen the blade more, the next lets the saw do the work at it's pace. One will man handle a sledge and get half the force of someone that knows how to use momentum, geometry and gravity to really slam the sledge with little effort. After a while you'll read the wood and know where to hit it and not just sink the axe in.

One more thing to consider. A 16 pounder is basically a bowling ball on a long stick. Chain saws weigh more than that and you will be picking up both a lot to do a 1000 pounds and that doesn't include the wood itself. You may want to get in shape now.
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