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Running on Fumes
#1
Here is the mod to minimize the biggest cost of car ownership: fuel. First though, some preface.

Carburetors and fuel injectors spray droplets of liquid fuel into an engine, like a spray bottle sprays droplets of liquid water into the air. As most of the fuel isn't exposed to fire, it goes unburnt or not fully reacted. The thing fuel injectors do that carburetors don't is the timing and computational calculation of fuel delivery for marginal energy savings.

Running on fumes (or better called gasoline vaporization) changes the liquid fuel to vapor/gas before entering the engine, multiplying MPG. I can't think of any reason this violates the "2nd law of thermodynamics"; as the engine burns all the energy inherent in the gasoline vs a fraction of it burning liquid droplets. The systems I've seen consist of a modified gas can set up like a bubbler, tubes taking intake air from the top and bubbling the gasoline, with the outlet a suitable hose to the intake manifold on a carburated engine. The bubbling is powered by the suction of the engine burning vapor downstream.

Some videos that show this are here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fUM_Wdz4ic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFxwJ8mIDtA

[/url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWqMZ8-EHSo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsFRaV4zKEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADdswlEkOdQ

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCCbLMg5qSM

I don't know any other fuel mod that is cheaper and greener than gasoline vaporazation in the oil paradigm. One is still burning gas but is burning a lot less of it. So much less that traveling thousands of miles becomes affordable even for the poorest car owners. The potential is huge, to or beyond the point that a 50 foot land yacht gets the same MPG as a stock PRIUS; without any of the complex efficiency systems in the land yacht that the PRIUS has.

The best engine to work with is an analog carbonated GASOLINE engine with an intake manifold, like a DODGE van from 1986. I don't know the work-ability when it comes to computer controlled, fuel injected engines. It has to be an engine that runs on gasoline.
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADdswlEkOdQ]

I know it's possible, and I plan to confirm with an old lawn mower, before running the HONDA on gasoline vapor, and before saving my pennies up for a carburated, gasoline van from the 80s to run on vapor. Mostly, the biggest cost increase for a bigger rig is the running costs, most importantly the fuel cost. Why not upsize to a bigger rig when the biggest cost is minimized. Minimizing the biggest cost of my dream life will free my wealth for things like proactive maintenance, replacement tires, and insurance.

Has anybody else heard of gasoline vaporization? Anybody know anybody who sucessfully ran their car on gasoline vapor? Are you currently running on gasoline vapor, and relishing the freedom and money savings this MPG multiplier provides? Sound off in this thread!
Working to earn my CDL so I can get ahead & LIVE LIFE!

debitservus.wordpress.com

Time saved is Time Banked* & value added.  *in quality of life context.

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#2
The real question of course is 'how practical is this system'?
In other words...real world usage.
1. Cold weather starting?
2. Torque for pulling a heavy load...either in the van or behind it?
3. Throttle response...merging onto the hiway?
4. Changes in altitude...relative air density?
Those are the first four off the top of my head.

None of those videos actually showed some one driving around....just driveway surfing.

In the American racing world, one less pit stop for fuel could win a race or a championship. Yet, no vapor systems.

In Formula 1, they don't refuel during a race, and the difference between 3rd or 4th in the championship could be worth millions of dollars. They carry 100 kilograms of fuel for the race. They spend fortunes on reducing the car's weight by a few ounces here and there. If they could cut 1/2 the fuel (50kg or 110 lbs) they most certainly would. The top teams have yearly budgets in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The history of fuel within the F1 world has been one of innovation and experimentation...costs be damned.
In the 1980's F1 engines were 1500cc Turbocharged units producing 1000-1200 HP....they ran a fuel that was 80% Toluene (a component of gasoline) that required the oil and water radiators to be ducted towards the fuel tank to keep the fuel hot in order to aid the vaporization of said Toluene.
What I'm saying is these high paid engineers know plenty about fuel vapors, and if there was a practical use for a modern version of the ancient vapor 'carburetor', they would find it.

In the last couple of Shell Eco-Marathons, 9000-10,000 MPG rates have been accomplished....just not in a vehicle suitable for practical road use. Excellent engineering on display with the goal of 'getting there' in the future.

DS, I offer this as a precaution....gasoline as a liquid is relatively safe to use and handle....as a vapor is where it becomes highly explosive. Be sure to use some form of back flow protection...a backfire from the motor could ignite the vapor canister quite 'vigorously'! I've lost an eyebrow or two in my days of playing with hot rods and carburetors from the flames of a backfire. (What were ya doin so close to the carb? dad asks. Just tryin to see if it was gettin gas! This is how young boys learn!)

Good luck.
I'm taking care of my procrastination issues;
Just you wait and see.
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#3
AWESOME! I can't wait to see how this turns out. As always, pictures will be greatly appreciated. Repeating johnny b's caution, a backfire through one of those things could be a disaster.

Guy
"We're all bozos on the bus, so might as well sit back and enjoy the ride."

Wavy Gravy

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#4
It would require a special engine to produce any usable force with gasoline fumes, and then not enough to travel along a road. This story belongs in the book with perpetual motion machines or Brown's Gas devices.
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The following 2 users say Thank You to ccbreder for this post:
Weight (03-24-2017), GotSmart (09-10-2016)
#5
My take

Vapor hold little punch compared to how the gas is used now. Our engines were not designed to have the fuel delivered like that either so really it has a limited usefulness as is. What I see are large displacement engines running at low power so that's what has to be worked with.

After seeing the generator run on it I thought that were it connected to a bank that could handle surges and short term higher loads while the generator ran at a constant level, that it could be made usable. It would be best with a generator that provided 12v to the bank while the bank ran a inverter.

Taking the concept even farther you could apply it to a modified hybrid. The engine could provide a constant amount of electricity, never expecting to change the RPM's and that would allow you to fine tune the mixture ratio. A system properly designed from the start with a computer controlling the mixture would be best but that's a lot of money and knowledge I don't have.

So a interesting concept, certainly better than cutting a 1000 pounds of wood every so often. I can now tell you the long term impact of that type of work and it's not pretty.
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#6
It's already done, but with LPG and CNG. Both of those fuels are vapor fed to the carb. The simplest systems people have successfully made are with a nozzle in the air cleaner lid (conventional round one atop a carb) just above the carb. The fuels have 50% of the energy content, so you burn more, they just run cleaner. Works great on an iron-duke in a forklift.

Gasoline vaporization would probably result in the loss of a lot of the energy content via both evaporation in a hot engine bay and reduced quantity being fed to the engine, which puts you right where CNG and LPG are, but with a cobbled together fire hazard.

I'd say forget about it. JohnnyB's F1 commentary about sums it all up.
-Zonie
Still Workin...
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#7
(09-08-2016, 03:17 AM)debit.servus Wrote: ...The potential is huge, to or beyond the point that a 50 foot land yacht gets the same MPG as a stock PRIUS...

C'mon now, that's just silly. I'd like to say you're a dreamer but items like the above are what draw the line between idealists and crazies.

That being said. Good to see you posting again. How's that diesel van running? You made it to Canada? Why the gasoline interest?
[Image: W2lacLw.jpg]
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#8
I have been resisting posting on this thread. but here you go.
you must have a 15 to 1 ratio of air to fuel. that is you must have 15 parts air to 1 part gas. this is approximately, you can go a little either way but not much. if you go lean more air to fuel you will severely damage your engine, it's going to run hot and your pistons are going to fail if you let it go to long. so you can vaporize your fuel but you must keep the same ratio 15 to 1, in other words you are using the same amount of gas to do the same amount of work. there are no free rides. highdesertranger
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#9
(09-10-2016, 03:24 PM)highdesertranger Wrote: there are no free rides. highdesertranger

But, but, but...........What about those magic carburetors that were developed years ago that the big gas companies bought up and kept secret?
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The following 1 user says Thank You to poncho62 for this post:
highdesertranger (09-10-2016)
#10
I wonder what the next method to defeat physics and the status quo will be. Do I hear chopping of wood in the background?


We should be glad that go go juice is as easily available and cheap as it is.

People pay more for bottled water that is just tap water, filtered to a slightly higher level.
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