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Running on Fumes
#21
To alleviate the safety concerns when it comes to a vaporized fuel delivery system, we can learn from how wood gas is piped to the intake manifold in cars equipped to run on wood. Fashion 3-5" PVC (depending on engine size and airflow requirements) piping from the bubbler to the intake manifold, coating the inside with suitable product so the gasoline fumes don't dissolve the PVC. If it makes you feel better, shield the PVC from heat in the engine bay somehow.
Seal the connections the right way for permanent use. Rig the Carburator so throttle and rpm are controlled with air intake (my Carburator knowledge is fading away).

If the fuel pump is mechanical and can't be disabled/removed/ran dry set up a recirculating fuel loop (if the car is equipped with fuel return line of equal size to fuel delivery line) between the gas tank and vaporizer, this should agitate the gasoline to maximize vapors (test this at your own risk). Also, make sure to leave original fuel system intact and tied in (with servo on/off valves controlled in cab) to fall back in case of vaporization system failure.

These are just thoughts on how to build a permanent and SAFE gasoline vaporization system, that isn't some jerry rigged time bomb.

Again, plan to confirm with an old lawn mower and the Honda genset before going back to a carbureted gas engined van. Don't want to spend a few grand on a used van only to find out it doesn't work/scale up/etc.

Plan B is to run on propane using standard BBQ tanks.
Working to earn my CDL so I can get ahead & LIVE LIFE!

debitservus.wordpress.com

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#22
For higher mileage I'm still  looking into these technologies.  DIESEL

100 mpg Cars. 

http://www.kineticvehicles.com/MAX.html


50 mpg Pickup trucks  (entertaining at least)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzbfvbgXXKo

But those little Perkins and Kubota Diesel engines are rugged and live long lives.
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#23
debit.servus,

What MPG were you getting with the diesel van?

Using PVC pipe to duct a fuel/gas mixture sounds like a recipe for disaster. If you must follow through with this project use metal exhaust pipe or something similar instead.

Propane powered van using grill bottles? Does doing this in the most inconvenient way somehow validate it?

I feel you will be time and money ahead if you find a decent gas fueled modern van, don't mess with the mechanicals, have a qualified mechanic do any necessary work that comes up and drive it like a little old lady would.

Guy
"We're all bozos on the bus, so might as well sit back and enjoy the ride."

Wavy Gravy

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TMG51 (01-03-2017)
#24
(12-28-2016, 05:22 AM)debit.servus Wrote: To alleviate the safety concerns when it comes to a vaporized fuel delivery system, we can learn from how wood gas is piped to the intake manifold in cars equipped to run on wood. Fashion 3-5" PVC (depending on engine size and airflow requirements) piping from the bubbler to the intake manifold, coating the inside with suitable product so the gasoline fumes don't dissolve the PVC. If it makes you feel better, shield the PVC from heat in the engine bay somehow.
Seal the connections the right way for permanent use. Rig the Carburator so throttle and rpm are controlled with air intake (my Carburator knowledge is fading away).

If the fuel pump is mechanical and can't be disabled/removed/ran dry set up a recirculating fuel loop (if the car is equipped with fuel return line of equal size to fuel delivery line) between the gas tank and vaporizer, this should agitate the gasoline to maximize vapors (test this at your own risk). Also, make sure to leave original fuel system intact and tied in (with servo on/off valves controlled in cab) to fall back in case of vaporization system failure.

These are just thoughts on how to build a permanent and SAFE gasoline vaporization system, that isn't some jerry rigged time bomb.

Again, plan to confirm with an old lawn mower and the Honda genset before going back to a carbureted gas engined van. Don't want to spend a few grand on a used van only to find out it doesn't work/scale up/etc.

Plan B is to run on propane using standard BBQ tanks.

Debit, none of the following is a personal attack on you, but needs to be said. You talk about this stuff as if you have experience, but it's all just a mixture of academically contrived theories and YouTube conspiracy notions. These insanely efficient gasoline vapor platforms don't exist.

Now, I'm perfectly happy to be proven wrong. In fact I would be excited (!) to be proven wrong, because that would mean efficient transportation for us all. But as it is this is all just stuff you're talking about with no practical experience. New users might be misled into thinking you're giving real advice because it sounds like you know what you're taking about, but the truth is you have no practical experience and that makes giving this advice irresponsible.

I would ask that you please present these notions as unproven academic theories in the future, or provide real, practical, first-hand experience of a working example.
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Weight (03-24-2017)
#25
(01-03-2017, 06:38 PM)gsfish Wrote: debit.servus,

What MPG were you getting with the diesel van?
14-17 MPG loaded according to the Torque app reading from a OBD bluetooth dongle, with parameters set the best of my knowlege.

Quote:Using PVC pipe to duct a fuel/gas mixture sounds like a recipe for disaster. If you must follow through with this project use metal exhaust pipe or something similar instead.
Agreed, for a permanent setup metal piping is it, and a metal container for the vaporization chamber. I plan for the whole vaporization system to be simple and safe, as losing the van to a fire will set me back and wipe out savings.

Quote:Propane powered van using grill bottles? Does doing this in the most inconvenient way somehow validate it?
The reason for using standard BBQ tanks is to be able to keep the conversion cheap and simple, and be able to have the BBQ tanks refilled without paying fuel taxes as the filler will think I am using the propane for non- motor vehicle uses. I believe this is how they manage propane in those Las Vegas taxis that run on propane, using COTS equipment makes so much sense!

Quote:I feel you will be time and money ahead if you find a decent gas fueled modern van, don't mess with the mechanicals, have a qualified mechanic do any necessary work that comes up and drive it like a little old lady would.

Guy
Yes I see fuel cost as the cost of rent like Off Grid 24/7 but I can't afford the rent! Why not look for ways to minimize the cost of my dream life in a time cost effective manner? I will be ahead even if gas vaporization only doubles the MPG.

My Uncle in Northern Alberta sucessfully converted an campervan to run on vapor, and travelled about 50 miles with a van running on gasoline vapor, and he stopped because his vaporization system didn't advance the vapor when stepping on the gas, meaning the engine died from quick acceleration. He was able to sucessfully run on gas vapor upto 55 miles an hour when he accelerated the van like a freight train. I wanted to see the van and the fuel system but he had it on his sons farm in Saskatewan.

So this mean I will need an throttle-engaged agitator (to quickly vaporize gas so I can accelerate like a normal van), and an electric heating element and/or engine-heat derived fluid heat exchanger to warm up the gas for the colder months.

If I wasn't going to trucking school I would do the confirmation tests now with a free lawn mower engine and the Honda genset.
Working to earn my CDL so I can get ahead & LIVE LIFE!

debitservus.wordpress.com

Don't waste lifes precious time adorning your coffin, with diamonds. 
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#26
The main factor in MPG is weight. A specific amount of gasoline only has a specific amount of energy. Since very few hydrocarbons come out of tailpipes these days, the engines are burning about as efficiently as possible. Taking those two factors in consideration, I don't see a big increase in MPG anytime soon.
The largest increase will come with the redesign of the body, (As in Carbon fiber frames and bodies). Lighter vehicles need less energy to move them.
Dodge is getting better MPG by not burning it, (shutting off some cylinders), you are not going to be able to do that when you need power.

JC Whitney used to sell a water vapor kit that was supposed to reduce detonation and allow for a more advanced spark. Didn't work.
The world is not perfect, and neither am I. Get over it already. 
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#27
This is an unproven acadamic theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwKaMA4jKTQ He uses a wicking system for the gas vapor jar, which mixes with air in a valved air intake tube, seperating fuel and air source. He says the gas vapor bubbler works for 15 minutes before the gas "goes flat", with the wicking system on this modified lawnmower he says hes ran with the same gas for hours over 2 months.

I believe this is real and workable for carburated gas-engines, and scalable to any size 4-stroke gasoline engine. I'll be sipping gas on a pampered ass* by the end of 2017**, thanks to me questioning the status quo and thinking outside the box that is mainstream science.

*Provided I comfirm that it's possible to run a 4-stroke gasoline engine using gasoline vapor indefinitely by conducting small-scale tests using an old lawnmower then HONDA EU2000i generator. Upon sucessful comfirmation of the small-scale tests, I'll buy a suitable gasoline automobile to render fuel system modications so the engine runs using gasoline vapor indefinitely.
**Provided I sucessfully confirm running on gasoline vapor in small-scale tests & buy a suitable gasoline automoblie to render fuel system modications so the engine runs using gasoline vapor indefinitely, and said automobile travels on public roads before January 1st, 2018.
Working to earn my CDL so I can get ahead & LIVE LIFE!

debitservus.wordpress.com

Don't waste lifes precious time adorning your coffin, with diamonds. 
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#28
Conventional autos already run on fumes. The gasoline is vaporized when mixed with air at the carburetor, intake manifold, and intake. Fuel injectors effectively atomize the fuel for efficient and rapid vaporization during intake. This is a silly idea.
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DannyB1954 (03-24-2017), TMG51 (03-24-2017)
#29
I cant believe some dont know that the entire point of a carburetor is to atomize fuel.
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TMG51 (03-24-2017)
#30
You're an interesting person. I'm going to follow this thread.
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TMG51 (03-24-2017)


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