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Electric Bikes
#11
(05-30-2017, 07:48 AM)Queen Wrote: Because not everyone has the physical capability.  I managed to make my current bike work only by finding an adaptive device, there are lots of people who cannot ride a bike for a variety of reasons, for me it's a knee replacement with poor results.  When I can't ride mine any longer I'll definitely be looking at an electric bike... just wish I could get a solar one.

Oh no...  don't misunderstand...  as an adaptive device they shine.  E-bikes and trikes are awesome for folks like you...  they give you the ability to continue to exercise to the point that you can, and then you can still get home...  that's not the demographic I'm concerned about at all. 

What I'm talking about are folks who buy them for the other reasons who DON'T have a need for one.  Some years ago when they were first introduced, I saw a poor woman who agreed to ride RAGBRAI with her husband if he bought her an e-bike.  Twenty miles into a 60 mile day, the battery died.  The poor woman was stuck pedaling a 60lb boat anchor an additional 40 miles.  I'm sure she didn't make it.  She didn't have any issues that made an e-bike necessary for her, she was looking for that "Big Red Easy Button" and then was stuck trying to pedal a bike that was twice as heavy as it needed to be.    Regenerative braking will continue to increase the range of e-bikes...  but not necessarily their utility.  

I'm just not entirely sure, other than the adaptive market, who the demographic is that the products are aimed at...  and if that demographic is riding them in such a fashion and great enough numbers as to create panic on the streets...  that's a problem as well.
1995 Coachmen B19 rear dinette, E250 chassis, 351W & E4OD trans
2006 Born Free 32RQ on a Kodiak chassis, 8.1L V8 & Allison 5spd trans
2016 Jeep JKU 6spd stick
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Queen (05-30-2017)
#12
just need to pack on about 4 lithium motorcycle batteries
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#13
Speaking of demographics....what about the demographic of someone overweight who would like to exercise on their bike but gets discouraged because when they get to a rise they have a difficult if not impossible time getting up the hill.  I can see it as being a great way to get someone exercising who would otherwise, say oh the heck with it, I can't do it.

I LOVE my ebike because it gives me a little bit of oomph.  I still have to pedal (it's a pedal assist, not throttle model) but it makes it so that I CAN pedal and keep up with my brother or with whomever I am riding.  It's very discouraging to have someone wait on you every few minutes while you catch your breath or walk up a hill.  They gotta love you a lot to put up with that more than once.

So, while I am sure you didn't mean to sound disparaging of anyone who uses an ebike, just realize that it can sound that way.  It doesn't make me lazy to want to have a little bit of help getting up the hills.  It actually makes me NOT lazy, because without the ebike, I WOULD BE lazy sitting on my butt because it was too hard to ride the bike. Hopefully this will allow you understand why someone who doesn't need it as an adaptive device might like an electric bicycle.

Now as to electric bikes in general, my brother got in on this when it was in the kickstarter phase but they are still taking preorders at a slightly higher price.  Pretty awesome and totally does away with the heavy clunker when the battery dies dilemma.  Slap a couple of these lightweight batteries in your pack and you can easily do 60 miles on YOUR OWN bicycle, so presumably not a boat anchor.  Tongue

Urban-X

Basically it's a wheel with a removable battery.  You buy the wheel in whatever size you need for whatever bike you ALREADY HAVE.  So you are not buying a bicycle, just the wheel.  That means that you can use whatever bike you already have.   And best for me is that if you just want pedal assist you just pop the wheel on and that's it.  If you want throttle, you have to run a cable up to the handlebars and attach the throttle to the handlebars.  Anyway, just a great concept.   Not for everyone, of course.
- Cindi
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NickTheoBennett (05-31-2017), mayble (05-31-2017), Queen (05-30-2017)
#14
^^^ I like the fact it's not too obvious.
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#15
(05-30-2017, 03:47 PM)StarEcho Wrote: Speaking of demographics....what about the demographic of someone overweight who would like to exercise on their bike but gets discouraged because when they get to a rise they have a difficult if not impossible time getting up the hill.  I can see it as being a great way to get someone exercising who would otherwise, say oh the heck with it, I can't do it.

So, while I am sure you didn't mean to sound disparaging of anyone who uses an ebike, just realize that it can sound that way.  It doesn't make me lazy to want to have a little bit of help getting up the hills.

Then your bike is over-geared for your current fitness level...  and that can be fixed with a simple swap-out of gears; the only limitation being that you can't gear down so far that you can't maintain about 3mph forward.  You need that minimum velocity to be able to stay upright on a diamond-frame bike.  Of course, there are no such low-gearing limitations on a tadpole trike because you can't fall over.

I don't usually discuss publicly my health issues, because frankly no one cares; but I will because they're salient to the discussion. When I started riding again in 2007 at 52, I was so overweight that with my other health issues I couldn't make it up two flights of stairs without having to stop at each landing and catch my breath. I recognized that my complexion was pasty and gray.   I essentially only have the functional capacity of one-and-a-half lungs, my ribs are wired together with stainless wire, and I have osteoarthritis in just about every joint in my body.  Even low-impact activities like walking any distance wreaks havoc on my knees and hips, although I'm doing some walking now occasionally.

I decided I needed to do something about my health, and that's WHY I started biking again.  I rode to work... four miles a day... all up-hill going in, and fortunately down-hill coming home.   My first bike was geared waaaaay too high, and I realized very quickly I needed to lower the gearing to make it in to work.  After I geared it down, I could ride the bike all the way to work;  within a month, I recognized considerable gains in my cardio and breathing.   So, no... I'm not being disparaging in any way as I've been there, and that's what prompted my comments.  If I can recognize those fitness improvements with MY health issues, with a little determination, co can most others. At 53, I had improved my health so significantly by biking that I attended the certification training for bicycle police officers, and graduated... riding with the youngsters, riding up and down stairs, jumping off 3' walls and doing the other tasks involved in that pursuit. From 53 to 55, I was the oldest living bike cop in the state. In 2010, I rode 180 miles of RAGBRAI in the three days I participated on my first recumbent trike. Trust me, if I can do this with MY health issues, I believe that most folks can.

What makes bikes awesome is their simplicity of design, excellent mechanical advantage, and that other than their manufacture and ultimate disposal, use no energy resources to operate.  They also have primary and secondary health benefits for everyone who uses them.  

E-bikes subvert most of those benefits, except for those who need adaptive cycling.  I have an acquaintance who owns and operates a bike shop who specializes in adaptive cycling...  so I'm both familiar with the needs of those who turn to adaptive cycles, and the market offerings as well.
1995 Coachmen B19 rear dinette, E250 chassis, 351W & E4OD trans
2006 Born Free 32RQ on a Kodiak chassis, 8.1L V8 & Allison 5spd trans
2016 Jeep JKU 6spd stick
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#16
Sorry, I don't agree. You're speaking like a cyclist and not as the average Joe or Jane. I just want to ride a bike, not "gear down" whatever that is. And before you tell me, I don't care. Determination? That's disparaging right there. I have determination. That's why I even bother to ride the bike. That's why I found a bike that works for me. It's very discouraging to be around elitist cyclists who look down on anyone who can't do as they did. THEY overcame diversity, so everyone else should be able to overcome diversity without anymore help then they received. Hopefully you see how divisive an attitude that seems to others and specifically to me. How about a little tolerance for those of us who desire help and would rather not tough it out as you did? Kudos to you, but I'm happy with myself and my efforts on MY bike.
- Cindi
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NickTheoBennett (05-31-2017)
#17
(05-31-2017, 07:29 AM)StarEcho Wrote: Sorry, I don't agree.  You're speaking like a cyclist and not as the average Joe or Jane.  

Wow...  I'm an old fat guy with lung issues and arthritis.  If you want to take my post as disparaging, I guess you're entitled to your opinion.   I had hoped you'd rather find it inspiring in that if I can do it with MY issues, then likely you can do it too, and without electric motors.

I rode next to a disabled veteran in RAGBRAI a few years ago who had prosthetics below his knees on both legs.  He's bought an ICE Adventure trike, and was out there riding with all of us.  He was slower than most... but he was out there doing it.   I have ridden on RAGBRAI with other guys on hand-cycle trikes who had no use of their legs.

They are inspiring.  No attitude, they're just out there doing it in a way they found that they could.    

No, there's nothing "elitist cyclist" about me.  I'm just an old fat guy with arthritis passing along what I've learned and trying to stay healthy as long as I can.   If it doesn't work for you, that's ok...  but please don't disparage me for doing what I can and trying to encourage you and cheer on others to help them achieve whatever level they can do too.
1995 Coachmen B19 rear dinette, E250 chassis, 351W & E4OD trans
2006 Born Free 32RQ on a Kodiak chassis, 8.1L V8 & Allison 5spd trans
2016 Jeep JKU 6spd stick
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#18
Quote:No, there's nothing "elitist cyclist" about me.  I'm just an old fat guy with arthritis passing along what I've learned and trying to stay healthy as long as I can.   If it doesn't work for you, that's ok...  but please don't disparage me for doing what I can and trying to encourage you and cheer on others to help them achieve whatever level they can do too.

Oh if only you were encouraging  and trying to cheer on others to help them achieve whatever level they can do!  

What you said was that you couldn't understand why anyone would ride an electric bicycle because you could ride a bike without any electric help and if you can so can anyone else, if only they are determined enough!  

Which is absolutely not the case.  There are many people who wouldn't ride a bike at all if there were no electric option.  Now whether you understand it or not is beside the point.  It is what it is.  Period.  So again, please don't disparage those who ride electric bicycles, ESPECIALLY in a tread titled Electric Bikes!  Wow!

From here on, perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
- Cindi
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#19
(05-29-2017, 10:01 AM)hepcat Wrote: And while they're a cool gizmo and in-demand... they're sure as H*ll not "green."  Those batteries all have to end up somewhere... and you can bet that's not a recycling plant.  

Why can't folks just get the right gearing and reap the health benefits of cycling is beyond me.

When you don't understand something you have two choices:

1) Open your mind and begin a dialogue with hopes of learning and finding enlightenment.
2) Close your mind and judge and criticize those you don't understand.

Sadly, the majority of people automatically gravitate to number two--it just seems to be human nature.

On this forum, we strongly discourage the closed mind and criticism and ask everyone if at all possible to open your mind and try to learn and grow.

If you can't, don't be surprised when your posts are deleted.
2015 GMC Savannah 2500 van, 480 watts of Solar Panels--and a wonderful furry best friend named Cody. I'm out to change the world!
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#20
(05-31-2017, 04:49 PM)akrvbob Wrote: When you don't understand something you have two choices:

1) Open your mind and begin a dialogue with hopes of learning and finding enlightenment.
2) Close your mind and judge and criticize those you don't understand.

Bob, I'm not challenging your perspective, and frankly I agree with it; but I'd like to ask on this topic, is this an invitation to discussion, or is your post intended as a warning to shut down my participation in a good, enlightening discussion on the topic.   

To quote Dudley Field Malone:  "I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me."   I have enjoyed many a spirited discussion about various topics without losing respect for those with whom I'm having the discussion... and I almost always take away something new.   I was under the impression that was the case here.   I can articulate my perspective on e-bikes not being "green," but I'm always open to hearing new ideas and perspectives.

If, on the other hand, your post was a warning to drop out of this discussion, consider it done.

Thanks,

Roger
1995 Coachmen B19 rear dinette, E250 chassis, 351W & E4OD trans
2006 Born Free 32RQ on a Kodiak chassis, 8.1L V8 & Allison 5spd trans
2016 Jeep JKU 6spd stick
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