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Bitcoin anyone?
#21
(08-19-2017, 05:36 PM)Optimistic Paranoid Wrote: Bitcoin now seems to be the currency of choice for paying when ransomware strikes.
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Which means I wouldn't be at all surprised if governments become serious about shutting it down . . .

Govts don't care about ransomware proper;  they care about financial tracking regulations and getting a cut of the action in taxes.
frater/jason @ Quartzsite
blog | Promaster van | offtopic answers
"I would unite with anybody to do right; and with nobody to do wrong" F. Douglass
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#22
Wow, the tinfoil is really getting thick now..........

Living in "Ziggy the Snail Shell" since May 2015
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#23
YES, BITCOIN HAS NO INTRINSIC VALUE. NEITHER DOES A $1 BILL

https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-has-...1-bill/amp
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#24
Gold has no intrinsic value either--you can't eat it, you can't build a house with it, you can't burn it to keep warm. Intrinsically, it is heavy and useless.

People selected it as "money" because it is easily dividable, mintable into coins, and lasts forever without rotting or corroding.

Living in "Ziggy the Snail Shell" since May 2015
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#25
people selected gold as money because they value it. this value crosses all borders and is pretty much universal. oh yeah gold has many uses in industry. especially electronics. highdesertranger
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#26
(08-20-2017, 03:04 PM)highdesertranger Wrote: people selected gold as money because they value it.  this value crosses all borders and is pretty much universal.  oh yeah gold has many uses in industry.  especially electronics.  highdesertranger


Historically, people who had gold resources did not use it as money--they used it as decoration.

Living in "Ziggy the Snail Shell" since May 2015
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#27
(08-20-2017, 03:08 PM)lenny flank Wrote: Historically, people who had gold resources did not use it as money--they used it as decoration.

Gold as a medium of exchange is mentioned as early as the 4 millennium BC (Egypt).
Gold and silver as a cross cultural medium of exchange is mentioned as early as 1900 BC (Middle East, India, Agean).
Gold and silver coins appear as early as 1000 BC (China, India, Agean).  As standardized weight coins around 700 BC.

Decorative gold in early history was used in two ways:
 1. As an offering to the gods; the god's likeness made out of gold because of its value.
 2. As a method of storing wealth.  A woman wore her dowery, the rich had gold objects, etc.

Developing a currency was necessary for trade.  IMO gold was selected as it was scarce, difficult to produce, doesn't corrode, and everyone agreed on its value.

I don't know about bitcoins, I think mainly because I don't understand them, I don't trust computers and I don't know of anywhere in my weekly commerce that takes them in exchange for goods and services.

 -- Spiff
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The following 2 users say Thank You to Spaceman Spiff for this post:
frater secessus (08-21-2017), Ballenxj (08-20-2017)
#28
(08-20-2017, 03:08 PM)lenny flank Wrote: Historically, people who had gold resources did not use it as money--they used it as decoration.
OK Lenny, I've gotta call you on this statement, sorry. According to this site Gold has been used as monetary since 40,000 BC. I didn't realize history was recorded that far back, but here you go.
https://bebusinessed.com/history/the-history-of-gold/

These guys say since only 700 BC, but still.......
http://onlygold.com/Info/History-Of-Gold.asp

These folk agree with the 700 BC belief.
http://www.silvermonthly.com/the-history-of-gold-as-money/

These folk are among the BC dating as well.
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab14

There are lots more out there that agree with these sites, but I'm not going to post them all here as I think my point was made already.
I suspect you and frater secessus are invested in bitcoin?
Doing the Van thing since the early eighties.
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#29
(08-20-2017, 04:03 PM)Spaceman Spiff Wrote: Gold as a medium of exchange is mentioned as early as the 4 millennium BC (Egypt).
Gold and silver as a cross cultural medium of exchange is mentioned as early as 1900 BC (Middle East, India, Agean).
Gold and silver coins appear as early as 1000 BC (China, India, Agean).  As standardized weight coins around 700 BC.

Decorative gold in early history was used in two ways:
 1. As an offering to the gods; the god's likeness made out of gold because of its value.
 2. As a method of storing wealth.  A woman wore her dowery, the rich had gold objects, etc.

Developing a currency was necessary for trade.  IMO gold was selected as it was scarce, difficult to produce, doesn't corrode, and everyone agreed on its value.

I don't know about bitcoins, I think mainly because I don't understand them, I don't trust computers and I don't know of anywhere in my weekly commerce that takes them in exchange for goods and services.

 -- Spiff



On the other hand, people have used everything from clamshell beads to coffee beans to dried fish to large rocks as money. The Chinese had iron coins. Pacific Islanders used shark's teeth and cowrie shells. In most of Africa, "money" means "cows". In feudal Japan, prices were set in units of rice. (The samurai, for example, were paid in units called "koku"--the amount of rice that would feed one person per year.) 

There's nothing inherent about gold that makes it "money". The Egyptian Pharoahs and the Roman Emperors simply said it was, and so it was. They could just as easily have said that everyone has to pay for things with iron billets or salt or cochineal dye (all things which WERE used to pay for things in other cultures). 

And there's nothing universal about gold or silver as money--most other cultures worldwide used something else, and gold and silver are used worldwide today simply because the Europeans who used it, invaded everyone else. 

In the end, ALL money is "fiat money"--it is money simply because everyone agrees to accept it as money, and it really doesn't matter what physical object is accepted as such.

As for bitcoins, I agree.  It's not really "money" if nobody in the local mall will take it, and you can't even buy a Big Mac with it.

Living in "Ziggy the Snail Shell" since May 2015
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#30
(08-20-2017, 04:11 PM)Ballenxj Wrote: OK Lenny, I've gotta call you on this statement, sorry. According to this site Gold has been used as monetary since 40,000 BC. I didn't realize history was recorded that far back, but here you go.
https://bebusinessed.com/history/the-history-of-gold/

These guys say since only 700 BC, but still.......
http://onlygold.com/Info/History-Of-Gold.asp

These folk agree with the 700 BC belief.
http://www.silvermonthly.com/the-history-of-gold-as-money/

These folk are among the BC dating as well.
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab14

There are lots more out there that agree with these sites, but I'm not going to post them all here as I think my point was made already. 



From your link:

"As much as the Egyptians loved gold, they never used it as a bartering tool. Instead, most Egyptians used agricultural products like barley as a de-facto form of money."

"Gold as a product" is different than "gold as money". Note also that this was in Europe and in nearby areas that traded with Europe---it was not universal. The Aztecs and Maya also loved gold and made gazillions of religious objects from it--but they didn't use it as money. They used chocolate beans instead. When the europeans invaded, they had no idea why the crazy white people were so eager to kill everyone in order to get the yellow shiny metal decorations.  



[quote pid='323764' dateline='1503267078']
I suspect you and frater secessus are invested in bitcoin?
[/quote]



Nope.  Not only do I see no value in anything I can't buy a Big Mac with, but I think "privatized money" is one of the dumber ideas I've ever heard.

Living in "Ziggy the Snail Shell" since May 2015
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