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Chances I'll be made to leave RTR site after 14 days? [split]
#1
As you know, there is a Women's RTR scheduled to start Jan 22, right after the regular RTR. Suanne suggested I post my question here. I plan to arrive Sat or Sun Jan 6 or 7 and stay through RTR, making my allowed 14 day stay end on Jan 21. Does anyone have a feel for whether I would be made to leave then, or might I be able to stay a few extra days? I won't have a car and must wait for someone to come and get me to go home. If I stay for the Women's RTR my ride would be postponed to the next weekend, meaning I'd have been there 21 or so days. What are the chances i'd be schlepping down the road dragging my gear, having been forced to leave on foot?! They wouldn't really do that, would they?! Any thoughts from you experienced tramps out there?
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#2
mert6706, I moved your question out of the review (of CO campsite) thread, to this one. Hopefully you'll get some responses from those with first-hand experience of the likelihood of you being required to move or not.
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mert6706 (11-06-2017)
#3
Chances are somewhere between  Almost None and Ain't gonna happen!

Permits are given to the driver of a vehicle.

Since you'll be arriving in one vehicle, that vehicle will get a permit, not you personally. Well  unless you specifically ask the host for one as a souvenir and you're not going to do that are you... Big Grin

You'll more than likely want to relocate your tent once the RTR ends so that you're closer to the action of the smaller womens' RTR anyways.

Your tent will just look like it belongs to one of us that still has a valid permit.

If we all leave the area before your ride arrives, we'll not be leaving you sitting with your tent in the middle of nowhere anyways. We wouldn't do that to anyone, let alone you!  Big Grin

Don't worry about it!
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The following 7 users say Thank You to Nomadventurer for this post:
Vesper (11-11-2017), Krenov72 (11-08-2017), mert6706 (11-06-2017), rvpopeye (11-06-2017), Suanne (11-06-2017), JustACarSoFar (11-05-2017), highdesertranger (11-05-2017)
#4
I checked twice to make sure this was in a public area, just so you know.

A number of people never got permits or got them late into the RTR. One nice lady Marnee with her deaf dog Grace got hers AFTER the RTR and asked the host about having to move. He told her to come back in 14 days and he would give her a new permit. Marnee also found State land up nearer the transfer station that is very lax as in one permit a year.

Of course things can change, YMMV, etc, etc, etc.
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#5
The rule on the Arizona state trust land is $15 for a one-year permit that allows up to 14 days of camping. This can be enforced by the state police. You can get the permit online, but there is a service fee. In practice, enforcement seems to be rare.
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#6
(11-05-2017, 07:31 PM)Nomadventurer Wrote: Since you'll be arriving in one vehicle, that vehicle will get a permit, not you personally. 

I spent a couple of nights last week at the Hi Jolly dispersed camping area a couple of miles north of Quartzsite. It's part of the same BLM district as Scadden Wash, where RTR is held. When I registered, they took my personal info as well as my vehicle info. And the host marked a code in a box for the site where the permit was issued. And the permit, which you stick to your window, also gets the expiration date written in large numbers with black marker.

In theory, all the permit paperwork goes back to a BLM office and gets entered in their records, with the idea that they'll know whether you try to get a new permit too soon. But the hosts out at the camping areas aren't computerized, so there's no way for them to know whether the people getting permits failed to leave for the required time before reregistering. The BLM is understaffed and can't keep up with all the enforcement, especially in high snowbird season. It's very unlikely they will be going from rig to rig with the latest master list of thousands of permits, checking to see if you've reregistered too soon. However, they can tell at a glance whether you have a permit and whether it has expired.

Each year, the BLM tries to ratchet up enforcement the best they can with the resources they have. Their attitude is getting tougher even if they don't have the manpower to catch all the people without valid permits. But the issue boils down to how you feel about the overuse of public land. Is the convenience of not needing to move to a different place more important to you than protecting that part of the desert from overuse? Besides, when too many people dodge the regulations, it just leads to more restrictions.
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#7
(11-06-2017, 06:12 AM)blars Wrote: The rule on the Arizona state trust land is $15 for a one-year permit that allows up to 14 days of camping.  This can be enforced by the state police.  You can get the permit online, but there is a service fee.  In practice, enforcement seems to be rare.

Since I've never been there, could you clarify for me--I thought the Quartzite area was all BLM land. Is part of it state then, with different rules and enforcement? How will I know which is which? From pictures I've seen it looks like one big unfenced area with campers scattered everwhere. Also,didn't I read recently that they are doing away with permits for people attending RTR? Thanks!
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#8
But the issue boils down to how you feel about the overuse of public land. Is the convenience of not needing to move to a different place more important to you than protecting that part of the desert from overuse? Besides, when too many people dodge the regulations, it just leads to more restrictions.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. In my case, moving to a different place when I am elderly, handicapped and camping alone without a vehicle would be more than an inconvenience--it would be impossible. I am not able to tear down and set up a campsite by myself. I am passionate about preserving and protecting our public lands and would not knowingly harm a grain of sand or a cactus thorn! If staying longer than 14-days is truly harmful then I will have my ride come back for me when my 14 days is up and will just have to skip the women's RTR. I certainly don't want to start my nomad life appearing to expect special treatment!
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#9
Mert, the State Trust Land is several miles north of Quartzite.

We use DeLorme maps and some phone apps to tell the difference although most of it is posted at the boundaries.

For the sake of the RTR you don't have to worry about the Trust Land at all.

While I generally agree with the 'preserve the environment' group and work hard at being environmentally friendly, I think this is one instance where it's way too late.

The area that the RTR is held in is and has been overused for decades. Right next to the RTR one of the groups of Escapees comes in right after we leave with several hundred 40' RV's for 10 days. Directly to the north of us, there are several more hundred Escapees in their RVs.

The area around Quartzite has historically been used by up to a quarter million snowbirds per winter...what we do or you'll do by staying a couple days longer than 14 is not going to do a thing for or against that part of the land.


We've always been welcome to use that section of BLM land because we make a point of leaving it in better condition that we found it.

Quit worrying, you'll be fine, no one is going to throw you out and no, don't plan on leaving before the Women's RTR is over, I suspect from reading your other posts that you're exactly the type of person the Women's RTR was aimed at.
Worry is a misuse of imagination!
 
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#10
(11-06-2017, 08:20 PM)mert6706 Wrote: In my case, moving to a different place when I am elderly, handicapped and camping alone without a vehicle would be more than an inconvenience--it would be impossible. I am not able to tear down and set up a campsite by myself.

You might be surprised how many RTR attendees would be happy to help you move camp, give you a ride, and whatever else is necessary. Helping each other is one of the reasons for RTR.
Someone wanted me to put this here: http://rollingsteeltent.blogspot.com/
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