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Am I missing the obvious - why not use vehicle's heater?
#21
yes, many use a vehicle for suicide, especially in the movies.
But if we only count the folks that want to live. More die from sleeping or even sitting in a vehicle while it is running to keep warm, than die from all vehicle use of propane. Not saying propane is all safe. But do not make light of sleeping or sitting in a running vehicle.
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#22
Do not make light of using a portable propane heating or cooking system in any type of vehicle, tent, trailer, etc.. The death and injury stats are off the chart for this type of use....

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5650a1.htm

btw, All records of deaths caused by intentional exposure, exposure of undetermined intent, or fire-related exposure to CO (codes X00--X09, X76, X97, Y26, and Y17) were excluded. Deaths that occurred among foreign residents in the United States and deaths among U.S. residents who died abroad also were excluded.
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#23
"But I've been doing it for years, everyone I know does it, never heard of anyone dying, those must just be the stupid ones"

Is not a valid argument.

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#24
An building expert on the yahoo group would put 2 liter water bottles in milk crates near the heater vents. He would turn up the heat to heat up the water, then sleep with his bed over the crates of water bottles. Water holds heat well.
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#25
You'll really have to work at killing yourself with an idling vehicle, (unless you put it in gear and lay down under it)....

http://www.newhealthadvisor.com/Carbon-M...icide.html
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#26
(12-06-2017, 04:10 PM)RVTravel Wrote: An building expert on the yahoo group would put 2 liter water bottles in milk crates near the heater vents. He would turn up the heat to heat up the water, then sleep with his bed over the crates of water bottles. Water holds heat well.

That's a great idea. I've used hot rocks warmed on the engine or in a camp fire on occasion. When vehicle camping in california I often use the car engine to warm sandwiches, burritos, etc... Just wrap it in foil and flip the item once in a while.
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#27
(12-06-2017, 10:02 AM)Deal Breaker Wrote: Far more people are injured and or die from using propane heating sources. The vast majority of vehicle deaths by CO are suicide related.
Your health and safety are at elevated risk when using a propane heating system in a confined space, period....

Do you have data to back up this claim?

"The CO in motor-vehicle exhaust accounts for the most poisoning deaths in the United States caused by a single agent."
Baker SP, O'Neill B, Ginsburg MJ, Li G. The injury factbook. 2nd ed. New York: Oxford University Press, 1992.

"Of the 11,547 unintentional CO deaths . . . 57% were caused by motor-vehicle exhaust; of these, 83% were associated with stationary vehicles."
Cobb N, Etzel RA. Unintentional carbon monoxide-related deaths in the United States, 1979 1988. JAMA 1991;266:659 63.

Use a CO detector whenever a combustion heat source is used.
 -- Spiff


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#28
(12-06-2017, 06:56 PM)Spaceman Spiff Wrote: Do you have data to back up this claim?

"The CO in motor-vehicle exhaust accounts for the most poisoning deaths in the United States caused by a single agent."
Baker SP, O'Neill B, Ginsburg MJ, Li G. The injury factbook. 2nd ed. New York: Oxford University Press, 1992.

"Of the 11,547 unintentional CO deaths . . . 57% were caused by motor-vehicle exhaust; of these, 83% were associated with stationary vehicles."
Cobb N, Etzel RA. Unintentional carbon monoxide-related deaths in the United States, 1979 1988. JAMA 1991;266:659 63.

Use a CO detector whenever a combustion heat source is used.

I listed several current and or recent data sources in prior posts in this thread. Some of your quotes above are from 25-30 year old vehicle studies. As stated in multiple data studies and opinions in my prior posts, internal combustion engine exhaust/CO issues have been greatly reduced since the advent of modern emissions equipment on current vehicles. The studies and opinions further state short of operating your vehicle in an enclosed space, restricting or plumbing the exhaust into the car, you have little to worry about.

Newer model rv's have CO alarms installed by the manufacturers as required by several government agencies and of course to reduce corporate litigation issues because of propane heating and cooking systems. I've not seen similar installations or concerns in new automobiles.
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#29
As Mark Twain said:

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics".

I found these:

For the USA, and averaged over several years, there are about 439 deaths per year from propane heater generated CO.

But, there are about 700 deaths from hypothermia every year in the US. 

So...using a propane heater seems to be almost twice as safe as freezing your ass off!


Cool
Never trust a camp cook with lots of shiny new pans...
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#30
disregarding the CO poisoning, using a propulsion engine for space heat is highly inefficient. highdesertranger
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