Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Responsible Canine Camping
#1
Due to some recent incidents I'm compelled to start this thread.  This is due to the irresponsibility of some dog owners in allowing their UNLEASHED canine companions to claim ownership of other campsites including but not limited to urinating and defecating on and near other peoples property as well as acting aggressively.  This is occurring where the owner is nowhere to be seen.   This has resulted in misunderstandings, words said in anger and poor judgement. 

First, I used to train dogs.  Did it for over 30 years.  I'm not claiming some kind of title but I am warning you ahead of time that I will not argue with anyone about this and most likely those offended are part of the problem.  Why am I not a trainer anymore?  Firstly,  I focused on behavior not training and behavior is more important. Secondly,  I focused on the owners not the dogs.  They didn't like that.  They always wanted to blame their dog and argue with me and I'm not going to argue. 

So, the issues at hand... unleashed dogs with absentee owners pissing and crapping in other people's campsites as well as acting aggressively towards the dogs and owners currently occupying said space. 

It's not the dogs fault.  It's the irresponsible owners fault.

Your dog is not under your control if you allow it to run loose into other people's campsites and fouling them especially if you aren't around to guide it's behavior.  It is little consolation how happy your dog is if you've disrespected everyone around you.  If you disagree with that the best and fairest way to handle the situation is to not allow your dog to run loose in others campsites. It's not the fault of the other person that you are allowing your dog to be a nuisance. 

There was a situation where one pet owner threatened to bear spray another's.  I've talked with both parties to hear both sides.  Unfortunately,  the one who made the threat did so in order to put the offending pet owner on notice due to their alleged inaction to their dog being a nuisance.  I'm hoping for a better outcome as it appeared this morning the offender was leashed.  I also hope that both parties will someday be able to talk this out because emotions were definitely at play and both to me appear to be truly nice and caring people. 

Earlier today I found a dog roaming loose in my camp at which I told it to leave.  It growled at me with hair raised because I interrupted it claiming my campsite.  I absolutely will NOT TOLERATE this kind of behavior AT ALL and my reaching for a rock convinced this little one that dominance and claiming territory are not tolerated here and I will be speaking with the owner later about it. 

I have a right to use this land just as you do.  We all have to SHARE it and by sharing that does NOT mean your dogs urine and crap are included in others campsites.   Don't blame me(or others) if your dog behaves inappropriately.  If you aren't around to stop your dog I'm going to intervene to protect what's mine. 

Especially don't blame others if your dog behaves inappropriately while off leash.  The only one responsible for its behavior is YOU!  If you believe your dog is THAT important to you that you would disrespect another person, their pet and/or their property then don't become offended if someone else disagrees with you and defends their space. 

This also goes for calling people names, gossiping, accusing them of doing it purposely, etc.  I failed mind reading as well as fortune telling and I'm pretty sure you did too.

Just to be clear if you read this far this is regarding OFFLEASH NUISANCE animals especially when the owner is nowhere to be seen.  If this doesn't describe you then it isn't about you.  PLEASE don't judge people unfairly if you weren't there. 

Being courteous and respectful towards others will be expected by others if you want them in return.
Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own.  ~ Bruce Lee

My new blog and discussion!  http://mebelikemeare.com
Add Thank You Reply
The following 15 users say Thank You to Headache for this post:
frater secessus (01-01-2018), GotSmart (12-14-2017), Miele (12-14-2017), Surly Biker (12-13-2017), TrainChaser (12-13-2017), SondraRose (12-12-2017), Stretch (12-12-2017), Jim Plow (12-12-2017), waldenbound (12-12-2017), geogentry (12-12-2017), dawnann7 (12-12-2017), mayble (12-12-2017), Cammalu (12-11-2017), bonvanroulez (12-11-2017), tx2sturgis (12-11-2017)
#2
Hear, hear!

If I pepper spray your dog it's because that's a better alternative to stitches (or worse).  

I'd love to meet and camp with other folks but my dog simply does not like other dogs.  I take full responsibility for my dog; he's never unattended or running loose, but I can't protect YOUR DOG if it comes into OUR SPACE, whether that be my camp or out walking in nature.   Your dog may just want to play, but my dog "plays" hard and your dog will end up a chew toy.

And then there's the wildlife.  Everyone wants to let their dog "be a dog", but part of being a dog is chasing wildlife.  It's instinctive and it's fun for the dog, but not so much for the wildlife.  You (presumably) wouldn't throw firecrackers or race ATVs at a heard of bison just to see them run, so why let your dog chase squirrels, rabbits, etc? 

Your dog is an extension of you, like it or not.  Being respectful - of others and of nature - means controlling your dog's behavior as well as your own.
Add Thank You Reply
The following 5 users say Thank You to mayble for this post:
dawnann7 (12-15-2017), Miele (12-14-2017), TrainChaser (12-13-2017), Headache (12-12-2017), Cammalu (12-12-2017)
#3
I see a trainer on TV using a rattle can to discourage behavior in a dog during training sessions. Are they any good for off leash encounters?
Add Thank You Reply
#4
(12-11-2017, 05:36 PM)Headache Wrote: Due to some recent incidents I'm compelled to start this thread.  This is due to the irresponsibility of some dog owners in allowing their UNLEASHED canine companions to claim ownership of other campsites including but not limited to urinating and defecating on and near other peoples property as well as acting aggressively.  This is occurring where the owner is nowhere to be seen.   This has resulted in misunderstandings, words said in anger and poor judgement. 
{big snip}

As *I* said in another post, this issue can be avoided simply by not camping in clumps.  So, when those of "us" who live full-time on the road decide to join a clump, I tend to agree that you must follow what rules the clump has declared. 

But since I don't , and will continue to not do so, it shouldn't be an issue , unless someone comes to where I'm camped and expects me to follow their rules.  Don't think about using bear-spray on my dog.  Just don't.  

Someone mentioned pepper spray.  There is a difference.  The kind of pepper spray that mailmen use on dogs is way less concentrated than Bear Spray.  Think about it, if you can.  Bear spray is intended to deter large bears, like grizzlies.  BTW, if you run into a pissed-off grizzly, your chances are about 50/50.  Bear Spray or 45/70 guide gun. 

Bear spray can be lethal to dogs.  You might as well shoot a 357 magnum.  You'll probably do less damage to the dog.  Most people couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with one, and then YOUR eardrums will be seriously messed up.  (which I find quite fitting) I'm pretty sure the dog you're trying to hit will be running for the hills.  But you wouldn't have killed it. 

BTW, it's not 2nd hand info, the "party in question" posted a suggestion to someone else to use bear spray on this here very forum. 

Any first-year law student would have a field day with that as a threat, and if a dog died as a result, that's not quite homicide , legally, but for most of us dog-lovers, it's right up there. 


AND FINALLY, I'm NOT  talking about protecting your dog against a genuine out of control , large aggressive dog . 
I'm talking about using bear-spray on an off-leash dog that someone finds annoying.  There is a massive difference.  I wonder what you will do when your camp is truly surrounded by coyotes.  

Have a wonderful day here in the desert.
Add Thank You Reply
The following 1 user says Thank You to pnolans for this post:
tx2sturgis (12-12-2017)
#5
I think it is kinda sad that anyone even had to post this type of message. I mean isn't it common sense?

If a person came into my camp and started going over my stuff to see if anything was interesting and didn't leave when asked - pepper spray
If a person came into my camp and was acting very aggressive and threatening - pepper spray
If a person came into my camp and started going around seeing if anything is edible then eating it - pepper spray
If a person came into my camp and started potentially putting my dogs safety at risk - pepper spray
If a person came into my camp and started to defecate or urinate in my camp - pepper spray
I would cut some slack for a child of course.

So why would I treat a dog any different than I would treat a person? Sure they don't know any better - means they didn't get taught any better so they need to be on a leash.

You sound like a good person Headache with a good heart and a lot of patience. Trying to work things out between two people as you did is a good thing. I guess I am not as nice as you. I keep my dogs on a leash when they are out of my living space because they are my responsibility. If someone came into my camp because I sprayed their dog and they were aggressive and then got up in my face - see line two of my list above. Arguing resolves nothing most of the time. I am not going to have a heated argument with someone. I will have a rational discussion though. If someone starts to get aggressive -I will ask them to leave- if they stay and continue to be aggressive - I wont ask them twice, item number two. You are a far nicer person than I am Headache.

“Lo, I would wander far away, I would lodge in the peace of the wilderness."
Add Thank You Reply
The following 4 users say Thank You to geogentry for this post:
frater secessus (01-01-2018), dawnann7 (12-15-2017), Miele (12-14-2017), Headache (12-12-2017)
#6
(12-12-2017, 10:07 AM)pnolans Wrote: Someone mentioned pepper spray.  There is a difference.  The kind of pepper spray that mailmen use on dogs is way less concentrated than Bear Spray.  Think about it, if you can.  Bear spray is intended to deter large bears, like grizzlies.  BTW, if you run into a pissed-off grizzly, your chances are about 50/50.  Bear Spray or 45/70 guide gun. 

Have a wonderful day here in the desert.

I am sorry to say you are incorrect.  I did not think that what you stated was accurate so I did a touch of research.  Here in a nutshell is a quote about the differenc:

Though they both contain the same active ingredient — oleoresin capsicum, bear spray contains a much lower concentration. A typical pepper spray used for self defense will have an oleoresin capsicum (OC) concentration of about 10% or higher. A typical bear spray has a oleoresin concentration of about 1 – 2 %.

Pepper spray is used to incapacitate a person, bear spray is used to scare off the bear.

And pepper spray can be used on a dog - checked on that also just to be sure

If your dog is sprayed with pepper spray, they are likely to be experiencing a significant amount of discomfort. Pepper spray causes significant burning sensations in the eyes, nose and mucous membranes. This non-lethal weapon has the same effects on dogs as it does on people.

I suppose if someone just emptied a can of pepper spray into a dogs face it could be fatal, but they would have to chase the dog to do that.

I do understand your affection for your dog.  I like dogs.  That is probably why I have four of them.  Two of them are aggresive - one is VERY aggressive.  It just would not be possible for me to camp clumped with other people.  Besides I am the type of person that needs space.  So if a dog came into my camp it would have to have come from some distance.  If your dog wandered into my camp at least one of my dogs would attack it.  Shrug - I am sure your dog would never wander into my camp so of course it would not need a quick shot of liquid ghost chili peppers.

“Lo, I would wander far away, I would lodge in the peace of the wilderness."
Add Thank You Reply
The following 3 users say Thank You to geogentry for this post:
frater secessus (01-01-2018), dawnann7 (12-15-2017), Headache (12-12-2017)
#7
Not to start anything, but if it's irresponsibility on the owners part, why punish the dog?  Clearly, if these pepper spray comments are even from dog owners(which I seriously doubt), they seem to indicate anger issues.  Having said that;

If I ever see someone pepper spray a dog that is not attacking, they will get a lot more than pepper spray in return.

But, just like the dog, you'll never see it coming.
Einstein, when describing radio said "Wire telegraph is like a very long cat. You pull his tail in NY and he meows in LA. And radio works the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat."


Add Thank You Reply
The following 1 user says Thank You to Stanvan for this post:
WanderLoveJosh (12-12-2017)
#8
(12-12-2017, 11:18 AM)Stanvan Wrote: Not to start anything, but if it's irresponsibility on the owners part, why punish the dog?  Clearly, if these pepper spray comments are even from dog owners(which I seriously doubt), they seem to indicate anger issues.  Having said that;

If I ever see someone pepper spray a dog that is not attacking, they will get a lot more than pepper spray in return.

But, just like the dog, you'll never see it coming.

okay, instead of scaring your dog from my camp i'll catch it, crate it and take it to the nearest animal control facility
hopefully you'll find it before it's adopted by someone else or euthanized
either way it's been traumatized

or you could just keep your dog under control and we won't have a problem

doesn't anyone worry about their dog being shot, lost or killed by predators? i would be beside myself with worry if my dog was out of my sight for even a minute.
Add Thank You Reply
The following 4 users say Thank You to mayble for this post:
RV-Hopeful (12-19-2017), dawnann7 (12-15-2017), TrainChaser (12-13-2017), geogentry (12-12-2017)
#9
(12-12-2017, 10:44 AM)geogentry Wrote: Two of them are aggresive - one is VERY aggressive.  It just would not be possible for me to camp clumped with other people.  

Question:

If you have aggressive dogs, may I suggest/request that if you see other campers within say, 500 feet of you, would you consider hanging up a bright 'Beware of Dog' sign somewhere that is visible to people approaching your area?

It could be a lifesaver for us humans. Obviously dogs cant read, but uninvited people would know to stay away.

It also might help you reduce others 'clumping' too close. 

It might be a way for those of us boondocking out in the sticks, to communicate with others to use caution and keep our distance if we are walking a small dog who is vulnerable.

(just a request)

Cool

Thanks!
Never trust a camp cook with lots of shiny new pans...
Add Thank You Reply
The following 4 users say Thank You to tx2sturgis for this post:
frater secessus (01-01-2018), SondraRose (12-12-2017), Headache (12-12-2017), Florida boondocker (12-12-2017)
#10
I completely agree I have to service dogs so I can't a little bit away from everybody else to give them some respect of my dogs barking and bathroom habits but even this far away they manage to find a stuffed squeaky toy and destroyed it so I spent too hours picking up stuffing from a toy that did not belong to my dogs. Thank God they did not swallow the squeaky Park

Sent from my Z799VL using Tapatalk
Add Thank You Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.