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There will be Peace in the Forum
(12-15-2017, 07:56 PM)tx2sturgis Wrote: Sorry, I don't dial 911. Tongue
Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin 
This too shall pass.  Better to dial up your inimitable
sense of humor which, IMHO, is one of the high points
of this forum.  
Cha Cha Cha
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I hope this is the right thread to say thank you to everyone.

Thank you for being here. Thank you for participating. Thank you to every one who share experiences and insights. But especially thank you to Bob and everyone he has enlisted to help make this such a great place to be.

I find that communication can sometimes be difficult, and I find that this can become even more so, when using written communication.  

So I appreciate that those in charge of the forum, has decided on a method, that will hopefully assist me (and all) in working on finding (and/or developing) communication styles that are conducive to the sharing of both experiences, insights, opinions, humor and the kind and considerate assistance, when ever something I (or someone else) has written, could easily be misunderstood, misinterpreted, or simply does not contain information, habits or acts that should be repeated by someone seeking  assistance.

I believe it is possible to learn to communicate in ways and styles, that allow room for all, and allow room for personal preferences, without the need for such preferences to become  universally true for everyone else.

And because I believe this, I also welcome arguments about other personal preferences.  And I also welcome comments about dangers or disadvantages about my way of saying, doing or implementing things.

What I, however, really do not like is; being told that I must or ought do things a certain way.

The one requirement I have to communication, is; that I must always be allowed time and space to become wiser, as I will Always end up doing my thing, exactly my way.

And for this same reason, I actually do try my very best, to also allow You the time and space to chose what will become: Your way of doing your thing. 

But I truly and honestly appreciate anyone who takes time to assist me in limiting (my) costly mistakes, or help me see that it can also be done some other (better) way.
As I am not good in school (and unfortunately I have twenty one years of schooling papers to prove it), then I mainly learn by doing (and failing), and by getting advice from others, while I am right in the middle of trying to do it.

And thus I hope I will quickly learn how things are best done in this forum as well. 

Did I remember to say Thank You to all, for being exactly you?

And that I will do my best to re-read,  to see if I at least appear to be on-topic,  and have weeded out superfluous (read: too much argumentative) stuff, before I push that "post" button?
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The following 1 user says Thank You to MrAlvinDude for this post:
geogentry (12-16-2017)
(12-15-2017, 07:39 PM)Almost There Wrote: When you see information that is, in your opinion, misleading or factually wrong, you can always hit the 'report' button at the bottom of the post. There is room for you to offer an explanation of why you think it's wrong or misleading.
As usual I agree with Almost, there have been numerous times when I start reading a thread and part way through there are so many differing opinions, I quit reading because I'm confused. Who  is right?  Have mercy on those of us who are trying to learn.
I'm done with tonight's official rant, thanks Bob for the topic.
On the journey of a lifetime!
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(12-15-2017, 07:39 PM)Almost There Wrote: When you see information that is, in your opinion, misleading or factually wrong, you can always hit the 'report' button at the bottom of the post.
IMO a far better solution than jumping in to the fray!!

Additionally, those frustrated by exposure to informed discussion or factual corrections could Ignore User from the link on the offenders's profile. <-- click on the username in the post.

The "bickering" immediately disappears for them and everyone else can read the full discussion. It's a productive and zero-drama solution.
Promaster 159" high top for boondocking.  570w solar. 35gal fresh water.
blog | technical irrelevant answers

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The following 1 user says Thank You to frater secessus for this post:
Vesper (12-29-2017)
What I do is ignore as frater suggests but before posting I click on and read ignored posts to avoid being inflamatory inadvertently.  

Did you see what I did there?  I said what I do.  I didn't tell you what to do.  I explained a work around made necessary by what I do.  I exposed a problem my way causes and a way to deal with it.  This would be useful to someone deciding to try what it is that I do.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money
8 of Ten Cannots, Rev. William John Henry Boetcker, 1916.
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The following 4 users say Thank You to Trebor English for this post:
Sleep (12-16-2017), MrAlvinDude (12-16-2017), geogentry (12-16-2017), frater secessus (12-16-2017)
Overall, I agree with this new policy. Not that my agreement or disagreement changes things, but it seemed like a good way to start off.

I hope, however, that this doesn't completely shut down productive and respectful debates and discussion over the merits of one option vs another. As was mentioned, it's often a grey area whether something is "on topic" or not because the person asking the question often doesn't know what they don't know. There may be hints in a question that lead responders to lean a bit away from the original question because there are other things to consider in the big picture.
What doesn't kill me makes me smarter
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The following 3 users say Thank You to WanderingCanuck for this post:
tx2sturgis (12-16-2017), frater secessus (12-16-2017), dawnann7 (12-16-2017)
(12-15-2017, 06:33 PM)tx2sturgis Wrote: I'm probably as guilty as anyone, and even more so in certain subjects, but dang, I just have to respond when someone tosses incorrect information out there.

I don't think Bob is saying we can't debate and/or try to teach each other new things, but there is a diplomatic way of doing and there is an arrogant way.

For me, my natural impulse is snark and condescension but I am trying to teach myself how to be more tactful. Sorta... Angel
It's little I care what path I take,
And where it leads it's little I care,
But out of this house, lest my heart break,
I must go, and off somewhere! 
 ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay
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The following 3 users say Thank You to dawnann7 for this post:
tx2sturgis (12-28-2017), Sleep (12-16-2017), MrAlvinDude (12-16-2017)
IMO, too many people (close to 7 billion) don't understand the difference between sharing ideas and sharing dogma.

Sharing ideas reflects the reality that no one knows it all, that we all have something to offer others for their benefit, and that others have something to offer for our benefit. Life is best done as a community of interdependence, of synergies, while we seek to make the daily grind of life easy so that we have time to play and be creative most of the time.

Dogma, on the other hand, is a proclamation that the person knows the absolute final truth about something. It's the pretense that an idea is the truth, not merely a guess or an educated guess.

To recognize that ideas are guesses and not the truth is extremely humbling and there's nothing humble about dogma. The humility comes when one realizes what was proclaimed as truth has led to self-destruction and that there is no one to blame for that except ones own ignorance. Rock bottom.

Ideas are always wrong because we form ideas when we don't know something, not when we do know something. Every idea put into motion soon reveals its shortcomings which forces rethinking as new information is now available.

Living dogmatically is a scary life because reality is constantly proving dogma wrong but mentally the person has some happy idea connected to the idea that the dogma is right. It's a mind game to trick self into happiness and anyone challenging the dogma is then becomes the enemy of happiness, hence debates that get out of hand and worse.

I wish the entire world could let go of everything and anything dogmatic. It would mean the end of wars which then would be the end of poverty. We could enjoy each other and learn from each other instead of argue and fight each other.
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The following 9 users say Thank You to free2enjoy for this post:
DesertRose (03-17-2018), Vesper (12-29-2017), KathyC (12-28-2017), Sleep (12-16-2017), rvpopeye (12-16-2017), MrAlvinDude (12-16-2017), dawnann7 (12-16-2017), frater secessus (12-16-2017), WanderLoveJosh (12-16-2017)
For what it is worth, barring politics is very sensible. I am so sick of forums that have been ruined by pointless arguing. This forum is so much more helpful and respectful than most. I am so happy to have found it.
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The following 5 users say Thank You to GeorgiePorgie for this post:
MrAlvinDude (12-28-2017), Van Man Dave (12-28-2017), rvpopeye (12-28-2017), AdventurousAdriana (12-28-2017), highdesertranger (12-28-2017)
SUGGESTION: Before hitting that ENTER button, leave it there overnight and sleep on it.
I often find that when I re-read it in the morning, I have a different outlook than I had previously.
I might make edits, or decide not to post at all.
That way you can make sure you come across as courteous and helpful.
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The following 1 user says Thank You to Myassis Dragon for this post:
Njaco (03-16-2018)

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